[grlandscaping]

I'm anticipating that I will need a designer as I get into this season, because I'm always out working on jobs, and when I come home, the last thing i really want to do is work more. So I'm thinking of having a designer drawing up designs for me that I do not have time for, my problem is trying to figure out how to pay them. Do I pay hourly, on commission, flat fee for a design?? I have a designer that has said yes to me for doing design work, but haven't set up a pay method yet. What do you guys think?

[agla]

No one is going to be able to tell you what to pay this designer. It is another one of these tough balancing acts that is difficult to quantify. Only you and the designer can balance it out.

I can give you some insight, having been a payrolled designer.

The first thing is how much you value this iindividual as a designer. Things to look for are whether he (or she, but I'll write he to save key strokes) is able to design to both the expectations of your clients and toward your abilities, reputation , and profits. That is going to depend on how well you are established as having a design identity or if you just need someone to kick out basic plans.

If you have a design identity, it will take a very skilled designer to pick up on exactly what that is as well as a personality that can put ego aside and follow it. Those kinds are not easy to find making them worth more to whomever can grab 'em. Generic type landscape designers are a dime a dozen. There are more of them than there are places for them to work.

Once you determine that you have someone capable of doing the type of design that you are needing, the next question is whether they will be meeting with the clients and selling the jobs or will you handle that? Drawing plans and selling jobs are two different things. If someone is a decent designer, but not good at selling the jobs, you will be losing valuable leads. Either way, you have to remember that the construction job is where the money is. Design as a separate profit making entity is not nearly as viable as a landscape contracting entity.

The value of design is its ability to sell jobs. The better the jobs that the designer is able to land for the contractor, the more valuable he is. But do not lose sight that the designer is worthless without the capability of the job being built. In other words, few people will pay good money to a landscape designer that is going to leave them with only a plan and no proposal from a reputable company to build it. The designer can not sell designs without being connected to a company that has a nice portfolio of built work. He needs you or someone like you to survive.

My suggestion is that you forego profit from design and let the designer get half of the design fee for jobs that don't sell and 100% for those that do sell. He'll have incentive to do designs that will sell. The other thing you need to do is maintain control by sitting down with him as he starts a project and stearing him in the direction you want to go in. Do the same before the plan leaves the office, so you don't get stuck having to do things you don't want to do.

The final thing is to determine how much to charge for design work so that you can satisfy your potential clients and pay the designer enough to make it worth his while. That is something only you can answer. It depends on your market, how long it takes your designer to produce the level of plan that is right for your market, and your ability to market design.

Sell design work up front on the jobs where it is truly necessary. Just write up proposals for those when it is not. Present a proposal for the construction of the design after the design is complete. It is far more effective to show a client what they can have before showing them what it costs. You can always revise downward from there, but you'll have them horny for the full job.

I don't know if any of that can be followed by anyone other than me. I don't know if it helps you, but I hope it does.

[Lanelle]

Let's start by defining the job that you want done. Is this person going to take your lead, meet with the client, draw up the design, estimate it, make a proposal and sell the job? If so, then their sales should be rewarded with some type of commission plan. If this person takes your information and turns it into a design and hands it back to you to price and sell, then they are more of a tradesperson who gets paid according to the time that they spend working on the design. If you hire someone to work full time for you, then some type of salary/commission plan can work nicely for both of you. You can hand off things to be designed for existing clients as well as leads for new clients. Other designers prefer to freelance and will often have a fee structure in mind. So I hope that helps to get this topic rolling.

[Pelican]

I use a designer for many of the same reasons that have been posted, plus it's not my forte. Most of the landscape work I do complements my hardscapes or is for a maintenance account customer, so I'm not often competing with another contractor.

I pay a flat fee which I pass on when figuring the bid. I introduce the designer to the customer, she takes it from there, working with the customer until an agreement is reached, then I figure the bid.

My specialty is hardscapes, so for the number of landscape jobs I do, this system works well.

[grlandscaping]

Thanks for in insight Lanelle.

I like the idea of a designer having a fee already in mind that they would like to have for doing a design. I don't have the quantity of jobs coming in that would make sense for actually hiring a designer full time. I also think that if the designer is going to do a design for you, I agree they should know what you do well and how you do it. Lanelle, you bring a good point on if the designer will actually be going out and selling the landscape or if that would be something i would do, i haven't put much thought into that. What do you think, should they sell the design too? They do know the reasons they designed everythign the way they did, maybe they should be the one selling. They could also be a horrible sales person, who knows.

[RyanVT2005]

In my opinion having the designer sell the design would be more beneficial to you and your clients. The designer knows why he put each specific piece into the design. Everyone interprets something different. Having the design there to explain to the clients why and what he was thinking when he drew up the design can help the client comprehend the design and imagine what the final product will be. My opinion

[agla]

There is one thing that you have to remember about having your designer sell the job. The designer is a designer. You are building it. It is great to have the designer sell the idea of the job. But unless that designer really understands and is experienced in the construction and pricing of YOUR jobs, there is a lot of potential for gaps between what they tell the client and what you would say or do. I mean honest mistakes like telling a client that they need a four foot deep steel reinforced footing under a wall that you would build on a compacted gravel base. Or, telling a client that planting an extra 10' Birch in the back yard will cost $1,000 without noticing the fence and the hill that add to the cost.

There are a few people out there in the job market that can handle that, but they are few. The fact is that most of those people are in your position owning a business and trying to find people to work for them.

Designers are a dime a dozen. Good ones are fewer. Good ones that have enough knowledge to design, price, and sell your jobs are very few. Of the latter, those that are available are rare.

[Stonehenge]

Agla's post brought back a memory of a former employer I thought I should share, re: the importance of using a designer that has some practical field experience...

I had worked for a growing company for a couple years, and to expand their growth the owner took on a designer who also was a pretty good marketer. Problem was, he didn't have much practice in the installation of projects. This led to a good deal of frustration, getting to a jobsite and seeing what we were being asked to build, knowing the installation as designed would not hold up well to time.

Soon they got to be known as 'Gary designs'; everyone knew when they got back to the shop, and it one crew was really grumpy and someone asked why, they'd reply 'we're working on a Gary design.'

So the moral of the story is be sure to choose someone who has experience in the field, and knows the things that are feasible, and the things that are not.