[kinnanscaping]

I just had a potential client slip through my fingers, so to speak. Honestly, I can't say that I am that disappointed, but it is always a little blow. I asked the homeowner the following in response: What were my areas of weakness/strength, in your opinion? What characteristics led you to select the contractor that you chose?

This was his response: The primary landscaping reason we went with a different contractor was because we decided to go with concrete instead of pavers. On the business side of things, we did not like the idea of paying $300-400 for a drawing. Also, we did not like the fact that you based your general estimate on the $10K that I mentioned in our conversation. If I would have said $20K, would you have charged us $20K for job that could really be done for $10K? We would suggest that you provide an estimate to your potential clients based on you doing the job to best of your ability. If the client can afford that estimate, then move forward from there. If not, then maybe you can discuss ways to cut some costs. Obviously, these are just our opinions. I hope these opinions/suggestions help you build your business.

What are your thoughts on his feedback? Thank you.

[Daniel Hanson]

I wouldn't sweat not getting to work for this guy. He obviously just doesn't get it. You ask for and talk about a budget because you need to know how much you are working with. If I ask a client and they tell me that they have a $10K budget then you can bet your ass that I'm going to design $10K worth of landscape or hardscape. That is the entire point of having a budget in the first place! I hate it when people tell me that they have $10K to spend when they really only want to spend $5K. As far as the $300 to $400 for a design goes you're perfectly in line to charge for that. Several years back we did two very high end estate landscapes (each landscape was just under $1 million). I know that the property owners paid a landscape architect close to $70K for a full set of landscape plans. Design work isn't free. You're being hired for your ability to lay out an aesthetically pleasing and functional landscape and you deserve to be paid for that skill. One way or another that client is going to pay for the design, it doesn't matter if you itemize it on the bill or you bury that cost somewhere on the invoice. People like this guy that you just encountered are the exact reason why I got out of residential install a long time ago!

[kinnanscaping]

I didn't want my initial posting to be too long, but this is what I wrote him back:
Thank you very much for the feedback. It is indeed helpful. I was the first to admit that concrete is much cheaper up front, so I completely understand that decision; I hope that it lasts you a long while.
The only thing that I will say in my "defense" is that I always ask clients for a budget. I understand the "what if" argument that you gave pertaining to a $20K budget, but I hope that you do not truly feel that that is how I operate. It doesn't make time- or monetary-sense for me to take the two to three hours required to estimate a $10,000 job when all you really want to or can spend is $2000 (that may seem defensive, but it is the open, honest truth). Anyway, I took your $10K figure into consideration along with all of the areas that you expressed interest in having done. Looking back at my previous e-mail, the loosely itemized list of work did not exceed $8000 when added up.

[Stonehenge]

I always get a chuckle (and simultaneously want to strangle) the client who wants us to design something but is afraid to give us a budget number for fear that the price will equal their budget!!

Uh, hello? Duh! If you tell me you can spend $10,000, I'll design something that uses roughly $10,000 in materials and our expertise. Tell me you can spend $20K, I'll design a $20k plan. Don't tell me a budget, and I design something for $50K when you could only afford $5K (and that happened to me once) and we have just wasted a bunch of each other's time.

So the client went with concrete. That tells you they wanted to keep things inexpensive. There was probably a red flag in there somewhere that you didn't pick up on. They were upset that your estimate equaled their stated budget. Shows they didn't trust you - a characteristic of younger clients or those who are spending right at the limit of their means. Another red flag you might have seen earlier.

And they didn't like the idea of paying for a design. They're seeing the landscape as a commodity like motor oil. Another red flag.

If I ever get the sense the client is deciding between pavers and concrete, I try to end the conversation shortly afterward, because they never, ever choose pavers. By stating that consideration they are really telling you that they are very price sensitive, and guess what? You're the guy selling the expensive stuff. Don't even waste time trying to smooth talk them into buying pavers, because it'll never happen.

So I might suggest that you really never had a shot with these clients, and if there's anything to learn from it, it might be to listen a little closer for the red flags, then act on them when you hear them, so you don't waste any more precious time chasing down dead wood.

[jwholden]

If you ask a client to explain why they didn't hire you let them talk and shut your pie hole. You didn't get the job. You are not going to get the job. The input you get from that client may help you get your NEXT job.

Do you learn more trying to get in a fight with a prospective client or asking for their help and thanking the for thier time. If you ask several past clients for input and you hear similar responses perhaps there is a lesson to be learned. If you have a client who is out of the norm and they give you a response that is out of the norm consider it a rarity.

Landscaping, it's not about construction, it's about people. The sooner you learn this simple lesson the wealthier you will become.

[agla]

I never directly ask what the budget is. Instead, I listen and look for hints such as what they are asking for and various indicators such as where they have prioritized their spending on other things in, on, and around their house. If they start asking about cheap compromise products it is telling you something up front. You have to hear that and then you need to start to give them general comparisons of product and price - that will tell you more.

The other thing that I have never been able to understand is how some of you try to sell design as an add on to selling the landscape. It is counter intuitive or like trying to swim upstream. Flow downhill, it is much easier. Design is what you use to sell landscapes. If the landscape is already sold, it makes it pretty difficult to see the logic, as a consumer, to pay more for a paper representation of it.

Start by selling yourself as being competent and responsive to what they are looking to do. Once they lock into that, they want to follow through to the next step. You have to show them the logic in developing a plan. If you can do that, they'll buy it. You can explain that you are basing your plan on what they say they want to its full extent. You can also tell them that you have an estimate based on exactly what is on that plan and that plant sizes and/or quntities can be reduced as well as changes in hardscape materials and sizes. That keeps them feeling in control of the budget and takes you out of it to a large extent.

This does a whole lot of things. It gives you the opportunity to show them exactly what they wanted whether they knew the cost or not. That means that you did not disappoint them as a designer. That also creates a situation where they see what they want and will often find a way to increase their budget to meet that. It shows that you are working from their needs toward a landscape - you are representing them. All the compromising is in their hands.

I really don't understand how people can get someone to commit to a $10k investment and then say they have to spend $400 to make a plan for you to follow. You can't sell a plan unless it has perceived value to the client. It has a lot more value if the purpose is to help the client.

If you sell landscapes like they are an item on a shelf, they will be bought like an item on a shelf.

A lot of people want to buy a landscape off the shelf and that is fine. But, you are wasting your time trying to sell those people something more. It is up to you to get them to think differently, or to find a different type of prospect.

[Fine Edge]

Good point Agla. In the last couple of years, we have tried to sell the design first since it makes the most sense. I'll listen to everything the client wants and take mental notes and then decide if its worth a design or not. 9 times out of 10, they really need a design to follow.
Getting them to understand the importance of that design is another feat in itself since many landscape companies around here won't charge for a design. I really have to sell that importance and give them specific reasons why we are equipped to design and build their landscape. I'll let them know up front that there will be planty of options regarding plant material, pavers, hardscape material than can be adjusted AFTER the design is complete.
Luckily, we come across the type of clients that understand what is being said. Occasionally, however, we just can't persuade them to pay for the design. When that happens, we are almost always bidding against other companies that won't charge for their time.

Chalk it up as "wisdom gained" and proceed to the next one.

[LandArts]

Let me re-phrase for them:

Although we personally don't trust our fellow man, "We would suggest that you provide an estimate to your potential clients based on you doing the job to best of your ability." Cost be damned and please be as creative as possible. We love making people jump through hoops in their futile attempt to take our money.

Trust is a two-way street and if I don't feel I have it from a client I lose interest fast.

[kinnanscaping]

Thank you for the feedback. As mentioned, I didn't really expect to get the job based on the initial meeting with the client. He really had no idea what he wanted done. He was, in fact, younger (like Stone said). Right at the end of the conversation, he talked about the "several other contractors" that had been out. So, yep, there were evident red flags. The guy lived two miles away, so I didn't lose that much time meeting with him. I then put together some numbers in about 10 minutes and e-mailed them to him. I followed up the e-mail with a phone call after a week. Total time lost, just over an hour. I should not have sent my second response explaining myself, but pride got in the way. By God, I was going to educate that man!

On the design side of things, I really don't think the Omaha market supports up-front design fees. Even the free-lance designers that I have spoken with this last week don't expect anything unless the job is sold. Like it has been said on here before, I will probably have to recoup that in some other form. I don't like that idea, but people's time has to get paid.

[Terre]

I find it interesting that some of you have less trust with younger clients. I've found just the opposite. Younger clients have been more trusting, maybe not as well off, and definitely less knowledgable about true costs, but very willing to learn. I'm spending more time educating them, i.e. "If we do it this way it's better because... but if we do this, we can save some money" type stuff.

I fight the budget issue constantly, it's my biggest problem. NOBODY wants to tell you the figure in their mind, if there even is one.

And I have to think, you are better off without this guy. He has an issue with perceived value for the money. With some people, that is just ingrained and they are never happy with what they get for their money.

I am fortunate that I can charge for estimates/designs. Not a fortune, but enough to make it worth my while. I actually picked up one job yesterday by rather snottily turning down his generic email request for "drive by the property and shoot me your best price". (It hit me wrong before coffee). After I replied, he called, apologized to me(?), and set a time to meet, agreed up front to the design fee, and I'll be doing the install on his triplex as well. So maybe rude works too?

[Fine Edge]

I beg to differ, Terre.
Although most people are hesitant to tell you their budget, we have had quite a few people this past year tell us what they expect to spend on their projects. Granted, most of these were referrals that had seen our work through friends but a couple were Internet searches that just seemed to trust us, I guess.
I just try to make sure I look people in the eye, listen to everything they tell me without interrupting, and most importantly.......
make them laugh. Just once or twice. I've noticed that laughter really eases peoples minds and brings everyone down to the same level.
If I get my clients to laugh at some stupid thing that I say, then most of the time I can usually find their price point. Keep in mind that I'm also educating them on the advantages of our company during the small talk just to make sure they realize the value that they are getting.

Laughter - My Key To Success HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Fine Edge]

Really,....... do you want to work with someone that won't laugh with you or make you laugh?

[Terre]

I have much better luck establishing rapport with the client, and making them laugh, than I do at getting them to a budget figure. But I also think it has something to do with my client base. Most of my clients are not referrals, they are from my advertising. But getting to a budget is the biggest thing I'm working on learning.

[LandArts]

Right up front on the initial phone call I mention that at the consult after looking at their property and knocking around ideas, identifying potential problems and setting priorities we will need to discuss budget. Last week I had a woman that freaked when I told her that, said she would NEVER tell me how much she could spend, I could give them my estimate cold and they would hire me if they liked it. Needless to say that phone call ended pretty much right there. Two way street...

[Terre]

Here's a reversal for you. Took a call this morning, lady wanted a design. No install. Ok, I explained I don't do freebies, and quoted her my standard rate, and she set an appt for middle of the day. Five minutes later she calls back. She wants to draw her own design but will I come out on an hourly basis to discuss what should be done? Ok, sure. And for once in my life, I had my mouth shut when it should have been because before I could quote her my regular hourly rate, she offered me exactly DOUBLE what I'd have charged. And the kicker? It works out that she has paid me more to walk and talk than she would have to walk/talk and design. And she's thrilled. Hugged me goodbye and wants me to come back next week!

Can I clone her?