[Terre]

I need help again, and you guys have all the answers!

I am getting better at bidding so that I'm not breaking my back for minimum wages, but out of all the jobs I've bid this spring and summer, only one person gave me any idea of what he was expecting to spend. How do I quit wasting my time on clueless people?

Case in point, I just bid a small project, building flowerbeds with about 45 ft of windsor stone 16" high, adding soil, shrubbery and plants, creating a 10 ft walkway to her gate, and adding solar lighting. I asked her if she had a budget in mind, she said she had no idea, even though she showed me the stone she wanted right from the Pavestone brochure from HD. I pushed, telling her the estimate could vary depending on the size and choice of plants, but still she wouldn't give me any idea what she had in mind.

I bid the project at $2500. She accused me of trying to take advantage of her! Her budget was $700. ???

Obviously, I screwed up even driving out there to measure. So, how do you prequalify people so as to not waste your time?

[mrusk]

I like to throw ridicoulous numbers at them and then i watch their facial expressions.

[Stonehenge]

I don't like to throw ridiculous numbers at them, as it might ensure we don't get the project.

But I do throw realistic numbers at them, then watch their expression. Or better, talk about the project by phone, and tell them you can give them a rough ballpark right there, and if it looks like the number you give is within their price range, then we can talk about setting up an appointment. In other words, create the sense that there is a barrier to the first appointment; a barrier they can control.

If after you give the ballpark estimate on the phone (and always try to err a bit on the high side) and they say something like "Ok, I'll have to talk it over with (fill in blank)", then you know the project was not in their budget. You just saved yourself a few hours.

If you get to the appointment, do the same thing. I did that recently and discovered what the husband wanted to spend was different than what the wife did; working on ideas to appease both made the work possible. Without that extra conversation, my bid would have been far too high for them to afford, because I would have designed what she asked for, not what they both wanted.

[Terre]

I was afraid it was going to be something like that. I'm not experienced enough to "throw numbers" at anyone, so far, not one job has been similar enough to another for me to feel comfortable ballparking an estimate. I guess this must be part of my learning curve.

[Dale Wiley]

" Any landscape construction project we do is going to cost at least $ 2,000 for a two man crew for 2 days plus materials."

That solves a lot right there. That is our minimum charge for any landscape construction project.

[Squizzy Taylor]

Originally posted by Stonehenge

I did that recently and discovered what the husband wanted to spend was different than what the wife did; working on ideas to appease both made the work possible. Without that extra conversation, my bid would have been far too high for them to afford, because I would have designed what she asked for, not what they both wanted.

And that happens WWWWWWWWWWWaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too often.

[mrusk]

After a few years of doing this, you will pick up little signals that they client says. If they say "we will not be living here forever" do not walk, but run away.

There are alot of other signals also.

[Cochran]

I have a long list of questions I ask during the initial phone conversation. Depending on how the answers are made, toward the end I either ask for a good time to set an appointment or tell them to call when they're more dedicated to a landscaping project.

I remember when I first started out and was in your shoes. I hated those meetings!! Now, if the clients gets an initial meeting to evaluate their property, I always ask budget and do not leave without a number. Many say "well I don't know how much something like this will cost..." and many other similarities. I simply tell them that I cannot build them a landscape design without some ballpark of what they're willing to spend and then I may start a pitch which involves lots of numbers high and low. I may say, "well looking at your property, we can do something around 5K or even as high as 25K depending on how large you would like plant material and how much you want done." Usually that will get them thinking and I can start needling them down to a smaller range that they will be comfortable with.

I also still do initial consults on site for no charge since my area pretty much inhibits that charge at this point (too many fly by nighters), but if they want a full scale design I don't leave without money in tow for said design (1/2 of design fee). If they're not willing to pay a design fee for my professional design, then they simply get a proposal and finger pointing :-) I know, kinda tacky but I gotta get paid too.

When you're starting out, it's difficult to determine who you want to tackle and who you don't because you want to build a client base and a business, but use the phone conversation as a tool in determining whether or not you need to spend any more time on an individual.

And as others have stated, always make sure you at least meet both husband and wife as their prospective on landscape and money to spend greatly varies!

[jwholden]

At the top right of this page there is a link for Construction Programs & Results. Follow this link and get a book called Profitable Sales a Contractor's Guide. It will walk you through qualifying customers and discuss many situations that you have, or will, encounter on a sales call. I can't tell you how many times I slapped myself in the head as I realized that most of my hot leads were not so hot.

Not everyone is qualified to buy from you. Not everyone can afford what you have to offer. You need to find clients with the personality and budget that matches what you have to sell and expect from a customer.

The above book is an excellent start.

[Falconree]

Wow, great thread.

This is all super helpful for the newbie small business.
I love the tip that any 2man 2day landcape job with materials is going to be at least $2000.
That ballpark is a great stepping stone, pardon the punn.

And realistic numbers (vs) rediculous numbers, good catch.

Lovin' this site folks, lovin' this site!
Rock On

[AZTLANLC]

Let me add that always ask how did they found about your company, we have found that most YP people are just price shopping, vs referrals from other customers that they sometimes have a sense of pricing.

[Terre]

Yes, this is great information.

I'd love to know some of your questions, Cochran.

I do a lot of small jobs that are under or right at the $2000 price range, so although I think that minimum wouldn't work for me, I do think I will institute a minimum. I seem to have found a market in the smaller projects.

And because of the 'fly by nighters', of which I'm probably one depending on your definition, very very few people in Denver, that I am aware of, charge for estimates. Certainly no one at my level.

That book looks interesting, I'm ordering it.

I spent 25 years as a travel agent, and in that area I knew how to qualify a client. For some reason it was easier. Maybe I knew my products better, but it seemed like people either had a price in mind to start with, or perhaps since prices are well advertised in that field, they were better educated. Very rarely did I have this huge discrepancy between desires and reality.

Since I only advertise one place, Craigslist, I know where my clients come from. And that is a large part of the problem, I know. It seems that the people who read CL here, are in one of two categories. Either they are great, or they are bottom feeders looking for the cheapest way to get something for nothing. It's easy to distinguish them if they post an ad for services wanted, but much more difficult when they respond to my post.

[Falconree]

Terre,

I am small-time and just in start-up mode as in the last couple weeks. I am curious and would like to ask . . . are you licensed?

I have registered my assumed business name with the state.
Opened my business account at the credit union.
Getting a business license, but
I am fuzzy on the area if I need specifically a 'landscapers license' or certified.

I have been doing homework, and unless I am mistaken certified and licensed seem to be optional???
I am very small-time rural, so I was thinking getting certified and landscape specific license simply possitions one better for commercial, larger jobs......

Am I off track here?
I have nothing against putting the effort out and getting myself certified and / or licensed, just have not accomplished that yet.

Appreciate your input!

[Terre]

License isn't needed for what I am doing in Colorado. I have had to refuse several people who thought pruning bushes and tree trimming were the same thing, because tree trimming does require a license.

Like you, I have a trade name, tax ID, and probably next year will get set up for more, including membership in the Colorado Landscape assn, there are benefits to membership there that I think will justify the $440 price tag.

Baby steps, here.

You can PM me if you need anything.

Terre

[Dale Wiley]

Falconree:

Landscape maintenance activites do not have to be licensed in the State of Oregon. Small installation projects under $ 500 do not have to be done by a licensed contractor. Residential or commerical it does not matter.

Pesticide applications are regualated by the Department of Agriculture and require a license. Fertilizer applications do not.

Sprinkler repairs install, landscape construction above $ 500 have to be done by a licensed landscape contractor and a licensed landscape business.

Liability insurance to protect you and your client is a no brainer.

Go to the Oregon Landscape Contractors Board website for complete information. Google it and you will get an exact link.