[trees]

Well, this year we bit the bullet and hired a new landscape designer. This young lady is bright, puts together nice designs (in fact, she's a great compement to me... her designs tend toward the traditional, while mine... well... not so much), has a pleasing personalilty (though not entirely dynamic) and is fairly attractive.

She is a real go-getter. Puts in the time, establishes rapport easily... has some work to do on the presentation side of things. I've been listening in and coaching her on that, admittedly crucial part of the process. It's not that she's a bumbling mess, just needs to polish that side of her act, that's all. Who didn't need polish when they were just starting out?

The problem is that she's not sold a thing in the last 3 weeks. At this time of year, you should be able to sell concrete pilings as foundation elements. I can't put my finger on exactly why this is. A couple possibilities come to mind. One is her age... she's only 2 years out of college (L.A. degree), the other is the fact that she's a female. This obviously didn't matter to me, but my wife thinks that an attractive, 20-something female may have a harder time with the middle aged women that make up the core of our customer group than I do. Couple that with mediocre to average presentation skills and I think there's possibly a problem with her appearing credible in the eyes of our clients.

I've been thinking a lot about the things I had to do to overcome the credibility gap when I first broke onto the scene in my early 20s. I've asked that she make the rounds on the plant geek circuit (hort society meetings, garden clubs, master gardeners, etc.) and have held her hand through a few of those. I'd like for her to be an active member of the horticultural community, which she's working on. I've introduced her to some of our more influential / referral-heavy clients, talked about her on the radio show that I do once a month.

I've tried sitting in on presentations with her... but I'm a little uncomfortable doing that because it almost seems to undermine her credibility. I've been a fly on the wall for others. She's ridden with me on sales calls and I with her. Right now we're going to start doing mock presentations where she presents the plan to me before going to the client with it, so I can give her some selling concepts to key in on.

But what else??? I'm truly at a loss because it seems like she should be a lot more productive than she is. Her enthusiasm is starting to wane a little because of her inability to close a sale.

What's the best way to help a new designer become successful?

[Dale Wiley]

Who does the estimating for her designs ??

Having a young 20 something trying to sell to middle aged affluent women is more of a factor in my opinion.

No matter how educated, how qualified, if she cannot establish that connection, it ain't gonna work.

Drop 1 " " Oh my god," or "Like, its like this way, and I like put this in here because it was like soooo good that way."

I agree with your demographic... and my wife often goes on sales calls with me for just that reason. She is the company office manager and comptroller and can talk to the middle age female client. The fact she is also a working professional helps out as well. She often gets the follow up calls with these female clients, and she has no trouble closing the deal.

I have always be hesitant to hire the younger ones for that reason, even though you can get them cheaper..right ??

Some of the most successfull designers, LA's, landscape sales people in our area are 40 something women. You have to tailor YOUR marketing approcah to what gives you the best chance with YOUR target or market demographic.

You have to be able to establish some sort of common ground with a mark, and that is seldom going to happen with a 20 something MySpace type if your trying to sell to a 40 year old to 60 year old female demographic that has a pile of money she's waiting to spend.

[Stonehenge]

Jesse, what have you seen in her presentations? I would think something would have stood out in those meetings that you could have had her work to improve.

And if 40-something women have a hard time buying from her, stop putting her in front of 40-something women. Start putting her in front of 50-something men.

As for mock presentations - I've never been a fan of those. To me personally they've always been like the difference between the driving range and a round at the local links with other people. (My swing is like syrup at the range, BTW. ) The extra juice flowing during a real, live presentation will always make it harder than the mock presentation where everything is safe.

I am wondering why you aren't finding a sales class to send her to, instead of making the rounds at hort functions. Maybe I'm missing a salient point, but it seems that you'd want sales classes for someone needing to improve their selling.

How are the leads split up? Is it possible that she's getting lower quality leads?

I liked reading Dale's response - his wife does the selling to the women, and I presume he sells to the husband. I have to do both, but I find I'm better at selling to the wife. As Jesse mentioned, I think that for residential scapes, they are the more important person to impress in presentations (generally speaking).

[trees]

Jeff, I like the idea of a sales class. I never took one and that never crossed my mind (guess the BS just comes naturally to me). I'll look around and get her into one.

The reason behind getting her in front of the hort crowd is that is one avenue that has netted me, personally speaking, a large number of supporters. Our area has a very active master gardener group. Seems that almost everyone knows someone with that (worthless) title and ask their advice when looking to hire a pro. That group has come through with a lot of quality leads. I've become somewhat of a small-time celeb within that community here and it sure doesn't hurt the credibility much. Maybe I'm misguided in thrusting her into that circle... I don't know.

I take all the sales leads and distribute them. Seeing how we work out of a garden center, they are sure not all red hot, but I make sure she gets her share of good ones, though I do keep the handful that seem really involved for myself. I hear what you're saying about putting her in front of 50 year old men. If that segment made up 30% of our leads, I'd certainly do that. Unfortunately since the overwhelming majority is middle-aged women, there's absolutely no way for her to avoid calling on them.

As far as what I've seen in her presentations... like I said, there's no major issues (she NEVER uses the typical 20 year old catch phrases... "oh my GOD"... "like,"... don't think I would have hired her if that was part of her dialogue). She just gets a little wishy-washy at times when there are parts of her design that she was a little unsure of or when the estimate came in above what was expected. She does her own estimating, which I check over, of course. Also, there are times when she'll say, that it was designed this way, but here's option B... a big no no in my book. Only offer other options upon request, otherwise, you know what's best.

She has a ton of potential and I really want for her to succeed. It's important for the growth of the company, of course, but also for her own sake. And, yeah... she is cheap, especially since a large part of her salary is in comission and she's not selling anything at the moment. Finding an experienced (and competent) designer is near to impossible in this market, so we thought we'd groom one. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do that...

[Stonehenge]

One other thought - have you asked her why she thinks she isn't closing sales? She may already know what she needs to improve on, but just doesn't know how to do it.

That may not be the case, but seemed worth mentioning.

It sounds like confidence might be the biggest missing ingredient - a sales class may help with that. Or maybe a Tony Robbins seminar or something similar. He has franchise presenters - a company I worked for long ago had one of these local franchisees come in and do a day-long seminar with all the middle-management in our department. Almost everyone left enthused, confident and eager to attack our jobs.

[Stonehenge]

relevant link: http://www.anthonyrobbinsdc.com/html...TOKEN=53707843

[Cochran]

As a former 20-something female selling to potential landscape clients (former because I just moved to the 30-something female ranks a few months ago...), I can say you have to feel confident talking to older women who are typically the same age or older than your mother.

It does take some practice selling to the "mom" type, especially as females when we are used to talking buddy-talk and such to females of that age group as they are typically our mothers or friend's mothers or aunts and such.

I was fortunate enough to be blessed with the gift of gab and a dynamic personality, so selling to older women was fairly easy for me to pick up. Putting here in a scenario to sell to only men only helps in that men would rather look at her than a male, not really the BEST way to sell jobs, but if it works.....

She needs to gather her confidence in selling to the 40 to 50 aged women crowd. Do you have another woman on staff in that age range that she could interact with?

In our area, the men typically make the majority of the decisions when it comes to spending money, so are these serious inquiries from the females without their spouses backing? Could that be the reason these leads aren't landed?

If you think the problem may be lack of confidence in her design work, give her practice designs to help build her design confidence. I know the more designs I do, the better I get. Or maybe you could ask her about specific parts of her design--why she designed a certain way, she'll tell you and that will help her build her presentation as far as the sales pitch she'll pass along when she presents the design. I've always been told ask WHY? 5 times....it's supposed to key the person in on exactly why they're doing something.

For example:
I'm going to the store.
WHY?
To buy a loaf of bread
WHY?
Because I want a sandwich
WHY?
Because I'm hungry
WHY?
I missed lunch
WHY?
Because I was busy working on a landscape design

Don't know how old all ya'll are, but remember back to when you were young and fresh and had to sell yourself to build your business and your reputation. Some people don't exactly have the confidence that others exude. This young lady may not have some of the confidence we have since she seems more comfortable working for an existing company rather than going her own.

I myself have no problem at all selling to the 40's crowd or older or younger for that matter. She's not dressing to youngish or inappropriately is she? Women have a big thing about type of clothing. Conservative is recommended. I am a khaki shorts or blue jeans with a kitted short-sleeved shirt type gal with my logo embroidered on the chest. Conservative enough for any crowd, yet stylish and comfortable.

Don't let her enthusiasm wane, once that happens you've lost a potentially good designer!

[Dale Wiley]

Physce is very important in any sales job, especially when your young.

Salespeople have to have a lot of confidence, and as an employer, you have to do EVERYTHING you possibly can to help her or any other SP out. I really think prior to hiring a good sales person is having them interviewd by an industrial psyhcologist speacializing in that sort of thing is a good idea. It is hard enough to get rejected by clients, let alone have your alledged support infrastructure causing you problems.

The psychological side of the sales process is more important than the technical side.

Having an a hole boss or manager is the kiss of death for a SP. I used to work for this sales manager who would holler out " Have you made me any money today ??"

I worked for that a hole about 3 months.

[PSUscaper]

My first rule.

Good designers do not make good sales people.

Why, I ask...WHY.......do we insist on taking someone who is good at one thing and make them do other things? A guy may be a great mechanic, but do you take that mechanic and put him in the showroom to sell cars?

Second rule:

You can all hate me on this one, but I'm going to say it because I believe it, and that's that. Designers are a PITA! Plain and simple. They usually all have their own agenda, and if it isn't done the way they envisioned it, they do nothing but whine. Which is usually funny, because half the designers out there don't understand the junk their designing CAN'T be done to begin with, and the other half have no idea what a 'budget' is.

All in all I will say that I think hiring a mid-twenties college grad as a front line sales person is just not the way to go. Hiring them as a designer to draw pretty pictures in the office....ok. Out in someone's house selling YOUR livihood....no.

[site]

It's all about confidence. Watch the movie "Suckers" then ask her to watch it. It helps to know the material cold. Know why certain elements are used. Know why one product is better than another. Appear as an expert. Act like a problem solver, not a salesperson. If she is still struggling in a few weeks put her in the field and let her become an expert.

[Stonehenge]

PSU, since I know you were a designer for at least a little while, I have to agree with your assessment.

I think the idea that every company can/should have designers design and sellers sell is a fallacy. Or maybe fantasy.

To remove landscaping from the discussion for illustration purposes, there are some brilliant mechanical engineers in the world. Unbelievable intelligence. But some can't speak up to others to save their lives (and just forget about selling). There are others that are both brilliant and able to communicate with others. Those are the ones that climb the corporate ladder quickly because of the skills in both arenas.

Bringing it back to landscape design, I think the designer in general should be more enthusiastic about a design, making the person more likely to be able to sell it. Being able to design does not preclude you from being able to sell. Further, they can answer the "5 Whys" Cochran mentioned earlier, without missing a beat.

Now there are some folks who are probably better left to design off in a corner and not be put in contact with clients - but not all of them. And if this one has the energy and will to sell and is willing to keep getting up after getting knocked down by each lost sale, then she should be a keeper.

@ Cochran - Your perspective on the selling process is interesting. I typically see the husband as the gatekeeper for funds for a project, but I think that when the wife is excited about the plan and I'm even within earshot of the budget, we'll get the work, because she can sell him far better than I can. Because the wives more often are the ones appreciating the aesthetics of the plan (and we're nothing if not about aesthetics), they are our most important allies. I have to wonder if there's just a different dynamic of a woman selling to a couple versus a man selling to a couple that makes that couple's roles shift a little in one direction or the other.

Anyway, I hope this designer works out for Jesse.

Site - Which one of these is the movie you're talking about?

[Cochran]

Stone,

When I'm proposing to the husband/wife tandem it is typically the way you play it out, but many times the wife calls and wants all sorts of work done, without (apparently) informing the husband of her willingness to release their money, things begin to fizzle when he finds out....BUT, when I get a call from the husband, whether or not the wife is involved, the chances of landing the work seem to greatly increase along with the proposed amount of work.

For some reason (at least in this area), women seem to have tighter budget constraints and have a harder time making a decision....men seem to be more directed in what they want--usually to specifics--and a bit more lenient in the budget talks as well.

It would be neat to collaborate within GTX to see percentages on who sells which gender more....although I typically don't see any gender or age as limiting in what I can do. I think I find more it's the perspective of the people I design/propose for that have the misconceptions on gender & age. I design it, I sell it, they love it!

True Story--I had one lady who was referred to me through our local rock yard, she called and we met at her place to show me work she wanted done. During the initial meeting she asked me, "So, do you have guys that come out here and look at what I need done so you can come up with a price?" I told her I did all that work and she gave me a "you can't be serious" look, I told her we were booked out 4 months (ok, exaggerating but she ticked me off!!) and she lost interest! Probably would have been a bear to work for as she ASSUMED a guy should have given her the proposal. That's a perspective in the industry that females have to deal with much more often than the males.

[agla]

I think you are al missing the obvious. She lacks experience at every level and your clients don't need to look at her ID to know it. Selling design is about your potential clients having confidence in your ability to understand them, understand the plants and site, and being able to see the project executed. Anyone in his or her mid twenties is not going to be strong in all of these areas. It simply takes time.

I think you can both make this work out really well, but you are going to have to be there for the initial customer contact and to close the deals for a while. She is going to have to take the role of an intern for a while. She should be there and participate fully in the discussion with the clients, but you have to assume the true role of the wiser more experienced person for the client. In a matter of a year or two, if she has the right stuff, she'll actually know enough about those "other things" and people will see that and be sold on her.

In the mean time, you don't have to draw every plan and her different style is going to attract more clients and add to your portfolio.

Some people will initially assume that a male of the same age may have worked for a few years in the field and not make the same assumption for a female. Either way, experience or lack of experience has a way of getting to the surface very quickly, so that perception is usually dispelled one way or another. I don't think gender is a huge issue anymore with most people.

Why would any of you assume that you can hand over a rookie a job that has taken you a great deal of experience and hard knocks to be able to do? Her training is in design. Your company is selling design/build. The client wants confidence in both the design and the build and even more. It took you years to be able to land good jobs. An LA degree is not going to substitute for that, although it is a very powerful complement to it.

Design is only a little part of the design business. She is currently a designer. Have her design and train her to do more as you fill in the gaps.

Have her go solo on jobs that you can afford to lose, but don't lose good job prospects by sending her alone on those. If she does not make the sale, that prospect is gone forever. A bird in the hand can not be allowed to fly away so easily.

[site]

Stone- 1999/1

[trees]

Thanks, all for the well though out responses.

agla, as usual you are a great voice of reason. I think like many in this field, I was thrust into the design / sales role solo when I was VERY green. Not to brag, but I did pretty well at it... not as well as I do now, of course, but well enough to see that this was something I could actually do. Those first sales lit the fire in me. I guess with this hire, I've been projecting my own experiences upon this young woman. Starting this thread was really an exercise to reaffirm what I've already kind of decided. I need to be much more hands-on in the selling process with her. The challenge is going to be structuring the mentoring process as to not overload me, give her the confidence to succeed and, of course, fill up the schedule.

The absolute need for another designer made me rush her into something she may not quite be ready for yet. I can't handle the work load on my own.

This thread has been very interesting. It has certainly helped me to switch to big-picture thinking and opened a few windows on the role of gender in what we do... which it DOES play a role, no doubt about that. Also about the process of sales. I'm with Jeff on the concept of separating design from sales. I know a lot of companies have designers that design and salespeople that sell, but I don't get it. From my perspective, I would not be comfortable in the slightest having another person sell one of my designs. That's not the case if you're just a designer and not design/build of course, but... Besides, it's just no way in the budget to have two professional, office-staff salaries for one landscape job.

Again, thanks to everyone...