[Terre]

As a bit of a latecomer to this thread, I would suggest something different to consider.

I'm the mother of 3 daughters. When my oldest turned 18, she marched her butt into the largest car dealership in Denver and announced to the GM that she thought she could sell cars, and wanted a job. After he got done laughing, he told her to come back when she was old enough to drive and he'd hire her. (She looked about 12.) She whipped out her license and told him she could start tomorrow.

Obviously, this kid didn't lack guts. But she didn't do well her first few months as a car salesman. She had the knowledge, (mechanic's daughter) but very few people took her seriously.

What she lacked, was presence. (and height, too!) My daughter had sense enough to realize that if she wanted to be taken seriously, she had to change her image. Take an objective look at your designer. Does she dress professionally? Jeans and t shirt that don't meet in the middle, skin tight, low cut, etc. don't cut any ice with a middle aged woman. (Take my word for it AS a middle aged woman!) Ask your wife how old your designer dresses.

Granted, a business suit seems overkill for our industry, and I doubt that you dress in a suit and tie when you meet with people. But for a 20 something young woman, who probably is still lucky enough to look younger than her age, it isn't overdressed. It is a sign of respect for her potential client, and it is a confidence builder for her. She is dressed as a pro, she will speak as a pro, and her clients will treat her with more respect, which will also help her confidence.

Slacks suits are probably better than skirts if you are dealing with women. But a conservative suit is a great weapon in her arsenal to be taken seriously.

By the way, daughter dear, 10 years later, is still selling cars, and has worked her way into the finance end, and makes considerably more than her mother. But when she wore her jeans and Tshirt to Applebees last month, they gave her the kiddie menu!

[papercutter]

Just found this site and thought this was an interesting thread. My role is as the designer for a design-build firm. My bosses (father & son) go out on new sales calls and bring me the design program. Usually I measure the jobs but occasionally they even do the basemap for me. I design the jobs and pull all the takeoffs, do all the presentation docs and then turn it back over for one of my bosses to finish estimating, and they do the final presentation. That's probably 70% of the leads we get. Another 10% of the leads, if they're big jobs I go on all the client appointments and have a greater dialogue with the client throughout the process. The last 20% are leads my bosses don't want to deal with, so I get them. These are my clients beginning to end, and I usually close them without any problem.

The reason this works is that as the only designer we have enough work to keep me busy full-time (since I also do all the construction & permit docs, our graphic design and our website), and I'm on salary and not commission. I miss the fun of commission sales, but it's kind of nice not to have lean weeks any more.

Dave

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by papercutter
Just found this site and thought this was an interesting thread. My role is as the designer for a design-build firm. My bosses (father & son) go out on new sales calls and bring me the design program. Usually I measure the jobs but occasionally they even do the basemap for me. I design the jobs and pull all the takeoffs, do all the presentation docs and then turn it back over for one of my bosses to finish estimating, and they do the final presentation. That's probably 70% of the leads we get. Another 10% of the leads, if they're big jobs I go on all the client appointments and have a greater dialogue with the client throughout the process. The last 20% are leads my bosses don't want to deal with, so I get them. These are my clients beginning to end, and I usually close them without any problem.

The reason this works is that as the only designer we have enough work to keep me busy full-time (since I also do all the construction & permit docs, our graphic design and our website), and I'm on salary and not commission. I miss the fun of commission sales, but it's kind of nice not to have lean weeks any more.

Dave

Dave,
Thats an interesting system for desinging. My only question is, do you not have communication issues by always having the middle man involved instead of having direct contact with the client?

[papercutter]

Matt- believe it or not, I don't. I attribute that to two things- first, my bosses are very good at what they do. While on site they get a very good sense of the program, discuss what's possible and what's not given the constraints of the site. Second, most of our work comes from referrals. While we don't self-promote well, the people who know our work know the quality of work we do, so the client is usually pretty open to whatever we bring them. It's standard sales stuff- establish yourself as the authority and they'll accept your recommendations.

Besides, it's not like I'm forbidden from contacting the client. If I see something that I think could be great but is radically different from what they're expecting, I'll give them a call and talk it through with them.

As weird as this business model sounds, I know of at least one big company in Phoenix that operates this way. They have landscape sales reps who do all the client interviews and measurements, in-house designers who do all the drawings, and in-house estimators who do that part of it. Obviously they're doing a lot of volume selling, but the sales reps I knew from there liked it and made really good money- and the clients got beautiful plans. It makes sense, really. If you're designing AND selling, you're doing a lot of windshield time and meeting time that may not pan out. This way, the designers are spending all day every day doing what they do best, so therefore the clients are getting better drawings.

My personal experience as a designer/ sales rep- I was selling about $200K a month in landscaping, but my designs were nowhere near as good as they are today. 80-100 hours a week is a lot to ask from anyone, and that pace kills your creativity.

Dave

[Alberto]

Originally posted by trees

........I know a lot of companies have designers that design and salespeople that sell, but I don't get it. From my perspective, I would not be comfortable in the slightest having another person sell one of my designs. ...

How would that work?

As a designer/salesman I usually:
1. Take the customer's call
2. Set an appointment with the customer
3. Meet with the customer and discuss with them about what they want
4. Measure the property and take photos
5. Draw the landscape plan
6. Price the plan
7. Call and set up an appointment with the customer to go over the plan
-Lets say the job was accepted-
8. Pick out and tag the plant materials
9. Order any hardscape items
10. Set an approximate date to install the design
11. Call undergournd utilites to be marked
12. Coordinate the crew with the work and the customer
13. Consult with the customer as to their satisfaction with the project
14. Bill the customer

This is my, and our other designers, normal process. Where exactly would a SALESMAN fit into this picture? I don't get it either!

[papercutter]

Everything except steps 5 & 6

[Terre]

I'm trying it as a team. One of my weak points is selling, so since I have a son-in-law who is a terrific salesman taking a sabatical to stay home with my grandson, I'm having him go with me on some of the calls. I go over things with him first, and he can present and sell the plan, even upsells, but I'm there if a question arises that he cannot answer. He has a better gift for sales than I do. He sells the job for me, I give him a small cut which helps feed that grandson. Works for me.

[Dale Wiley]

1. Designer
2. Sales Person
3. Estimator
4. Project Manager
&
5. Job Foreperson

These re the 4 jobs that you all want one person to do, do it well and cheaply.

Looking at the list, I can see where you will find aptitude and skill to combine 2 of those positions, maybe Designer / Sales person or Estimator / Project Manager.

I have done all those jobs over my career, and can truthfully say, you really cannot combine all 4 positons into one and have it effective, efficent and PROFITABLE.

Alberto is doing things a project manager / foreperson should do and no good salesperson / designer would stand to do because it takes away from MAKING MONEY.

You find that one person who can do all 4 jobs, you best hire them, if you can and be prepared to pay a minimum of $ 60K to 80K per year, and make damn sure your operations side can execute and not screw it all up.

Otherwise, papercutters model is not bad, but in the SW market it probably works fine. I also submit that any of these business's that are in those situations best be in the 2 million dollar range to carry that kind of overhead. Anything smaller is going to be very hard.

[Alberto]

[i].....
Alberto is doing things a project manager / foreperson should do and no good salesperson / designer would stand to do because it takes away from MAKING MONEY.
..... [/b]

To be fair I don't consider what I do to be project manager or foreperson. We have a guy to do that. I usually go out with the crew the first day to introduce them to the client and to be sure they understand the job, but from then on, unless there's problems, it's up to them. I'm off on another project usually by then.