[Lawn Lad]

We're working on developing some sales tools for next year (website, print materials, etc.). I intend to have one of my supervisors sell more next year for some of our services. I'm looking to devlop a system that provides him with the information he needs to be successful. I also want to improve in sales.

I'm wondering if anyone has read books, attended programs, etc. that they found helpful and useful and use in their sales process. One book that I found helpful in developing some tools is a book by Marvin Montgomery called 'Practice makes perfect - the professional's guide to sales success'. I've worked at developing content for the sales people (myself and one other - with others hopefully in the future) so they have answers to questions and know how to bid certain projects, etc.

In particular, I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with and uses something like the Sandler sales system. Here in Cleveland there is a guy who teaches it and I'm curious if others have had experience and what they think of it.

[Stonehenge]

I think Nebraska is a student of the sale - he might be of help on this one.

I haven't really studied it at all. And I should.

[prapoza]

Check this out Marty Grunder and his Boot Camp at:
Boot Camp

[ScenicAcres]

anybody ever go to this? 1500 bucks seems like a lot. Is it worth it?

[Dale Wiley]

Marty's Boot camp is in my future plans.

I have been through a lot of different sales systems. Most are complete bull

I really don't like the Sandler system at all. It is very manipulative and just did not fit well with my personality.

I will be offering a sales system soon, a real down to earth, common sense approach to maiximize time and get the most from your efforts.

It will be what has worked for me, aimed specifically at the construciton / green industry.

Nothing is better thatn being yourself nad learning how to sell YOURSELF and your COMPANY.

[Lawn Lad]

What I'm trying to evaluate in all of this is the process or system. I have doubts about the Sandler system for sure. It seems quite aggressive and potentially offensive. However, I think it has merits. I'm wondering if some of the same 'truisms' might apply in other sales systems with softer edges.

I agree that qualifying or disqualifying a customer is a huge component of successful sales. I can understand, but don't necessarily agree that pain, or avoidance of it, is a primary buying factor - particularly in the green industry.

The model they laid out of the P.B.S. (Prospects Buying System) makes sense and I can see where as the salesperson you may very well be operating at a disadvantage, particularly when you let the prospect maintain entire control of the process. I don't believe salespeople are viewed as being on equal footing with the prospect. When I put myself in the buyer’s shoes, which is the other hat I wear during the day, I see how I manage my buying process. While I try to respect salespeople and be honest with them during the sales process, I don't always feel I'm being treated the same in return.

The PBS process as described to me goes something along the lines of....

Step one) Mislead and lie number one (the prospect isn't honest about their needs, what they're looking to do, etc.) The prospect tells you something to begin the conversation, but may not give you all the details.

Step two) Unpaid consulting and then tell 'em step - this is where the salesperson shows how much they know and the prospect is getting lots of free information.

Step three) Lie number two - "I'll get back to you..." step, the put off or the polite no.

Step four) It's over - but you don't know that it is. The customer has made up their mind, but you think you might still have a shot at getting the sale - yet another pending sale.

The customer is shopping your information, numbers, etc on the street for a better price or what have you. They may be validating what they already know or confirming their current contractor (a price test). They may also be benchmarking for a future project or doing their research.

While their reasons shouldn't affect how we sell to them necessarily, what we should do is not be an unpaid consultant. I agree with this concept.

A long time ago I learned the hard way that I was not providing design services, drawings, paint lines in the lawn, flags in the beds, etc. unless I had a design agreement or some sort of relationship with the customer that I knew I was going to be paid. After doing some unpaid design/consulting work I'd drive by the house only to find someone else (another contractor, the homeowner) doing the work.

I guess what I'm looking for is a comparison or understanding of how the Sandler system is like or unlike other processes or approaches to business. I understand that we are programmed to do certain things from early on in life and the routines that I practice now as a salesperson were learned through experience and not through training. While I'm moderately successful now, I could be better at what I do.

I think the biggest benefit of this type of system is learning how to better qualify a customer. The customer must have and be willing to spend the money with us as contractors before we can give them an honest assessment of their job and how we can provide value for their budget based on their stated needs, priorities, wants and desires. Without an honest exchange of information we're taking a shot in the dark as to whether our quote/proposal is going to meet the prospect's needs.

The frustration I have and want to be able to get better at is not being one of four or five bids and the "I'll get back to you later...” routine. While the best prospect is one that is referred to you, and I'd like to solely grow my business on reputation, and we have been for the last number of years, I want to change the course of the sales that come to us. The pipeline of referrals isn't as big as I'd like in the areas of service I want to sell more of, so therefore I'll need to advertise and sell more of a different type of work to meet our growth goals in specific areas. This is where a more organized approach to selling makes sense, particularly as I'm more serious and committed to learning about it and how to be as effective as possible.

I welcome others thoughts/ideas on sales systems and what they do. Please share your thoughts, approaches and philosophies to sales.

Thanks.
Doug

[prapoza]

I've gone two years in a row and am signed up for this year too. $1500.00 is nothing if it can help you generate 10, 20, 30, 40% more in profitable sales for the rest of your businesses life. Think big picture, you can't be afraid to spend money on your own self improvement or the improvement of your business. I went from 650K to 850K to 1.4M this year with Marty's help.
_______
Paul

[johnkeegan]

Find a system that fits your personality, as Dale alluded to. We are not all meant to be hard-driving, high pressure salesmen.
Alot of these "gurus" seem to be excellant salesmen that happen to do landscaping. Wereas, alot of us are landscapers that are forced to be salesmen. Not all of us care if we create a multi-million dollar company. If it were to happen, fine, but it's not the goal. We want to make a decent living while we do work we are proud of. And we don't want to sacrifice 70 hours per week for 20 years to achieve millionaire status, especially while raising a family.
I've read Grunder and VanderKoi. Both were motivational, witty and seemingly are/were tenacious salesmen/businessmen. But my eyes glazed over reading their books. But that's just me. Someone with their similar temperment and drive might really get inspired.
But remember it's people who are more aggressive that are going to be the one's writing the books and doing seminars. The rest of us that are more low key, although still "succesful", are not going to want to go on tour or spend hundreds of hours writing books. We may believe simply in a few things such as, - be honest and respectful of customers and employees and expect the same in return--- take pride in your work--- and, on the "business" end--- maximize efficency and know your true cost. But to us that seems too obvious and boring to write a 200 page book about or to talk about repeatedly during a 2 day seminar. We rather just do our work.
Again, I stress these "gurus" clearly have inspired some, so go for it if you find what they say clicks that lightbulb on. The rest of us, though, need not be dejected if we don't find a magic bullet to success in their teachings. There's more than one road to success.

[Lawn Lad]

Part of the reason for my looking for a 'sales system is so that as a company we operate similarly as I train others. Part of the problem is that what I do is by feeling and years of experience, so while I can try and define what I do, it's hard to break down the mechanics of it when I'm not exactly sure what it is that I do percisely, and I could be a whole lot more effective. So why teach someone what I do when I believe I'm marginally effective.

While my goal isn't to create a multi-million dollar enterprise, I do want to apply concepts learned in the E-Myth (Michael Gerber) and try and create a process that provides a consistent result. I feel by looking for a methodology that we can adapt to our company core values and personality, we can be more consistent and therefore predictable in our efforts.

Part of what I'm looking for are the numbers we can use to manage our sales. While we track a few numbers, we're not as consistent in tracking, reporting and then using the numbers to adjust our approach to get the end results we're shooting for.

I want to know that when I establish the budget numbers for next year that we know exactly what we have to sell, in what servie categories, who's got what sales goals and how much advertising we have to do to bring in the inquiries to make the sales based on our closing rates. We then need the system to monitor our progress with respect to our goals so we know if we're ahead or behind.

If there is anyone who has a system they use that they find helpful for them that thinks I would benefit from what you have to share based on my explanations here, I'd love to talk with you. Please email, pm or call me.... thanks.

Doug
216.371.1935
Doug@lawnlad.com

[jwholden]

Nice post johnkeegan!

[prapoza]

I agree with JohnKeegan too. I am about as far from a hard charger as one could find. I started as a landscape guy with no experience learned a lot on the job and some in the class room. I still enjoy running equipment and creating landscapes. However, I do not want to "have" to do it. I want to have a true business not a job (E-Myth). My business was and still is too dependent on me. I am trying to create a business that could run and not skip a beat without me. One of the great things about Marty's Boot Camp is there are all different kinds of people/ business owners there. Some go getter type A guys, some laid back trying to improve some aspect of there businesses and some in the middle. I have heard great things about Jim Paluch too. I'm sure there are other such events/groups that are great. I think it is of great value to get involved with a group of people with an interest in improving there businesses. For me it's not about the money (though I have nothing against money) it's about building a great team and business I can be proud of. I already have way more than I ever thought I would, in terms of the business I've built in the last few years.
___________
Paul

BTW- I work Monday -Friday 6:45am to 4 ish. Saturdays for 0-3 hours depending on the season, meeting clients etc... and no Sundays ever. I am home for lunch most days and home to see my kids once or twice a day for 15 to 45 minutes. Sound like a hard charger?