[Rex Mann]

I have an opportunity to do some work for a fellow Church member. He wants to do a trade. Trade my work for a service he provides. I have done trades in the past but, it was with my vendors doing displays or other work for them. We agree we would do this project for you if you "take care of this months statement" They knew what they were getting, and I knew what I was getting. I guess I did not feel like I was getting the short-end-of-the-stick. I knew what my costs were and I knew what my statement would be and I also knew ow much they paid for Unilock being a distributor. I always felt it was equally beneficial.

That's the background of my trade experience. Back to the guy from my Church. He wants about 2500 sf of pavers, part would be driveway and part would be patio/walkway. Also, about 45 square face feet of planter wall. Close to 20 G's of work. He wants to trade advertising in his home mailer magazine. It covers all of Phoenix, collectively know as "the valley". Over 950,000 of these things go out every 7 weeks. Well one full page ad goes for about 15 K. I know my ad would do well. He has a Home Depot installers ad running for over a year straight. Full page ad at 15 K a time. It must be working for them, and they are higher priced then we are. But, I would be chasing leads all over the valley. It's about 2 1/2 hours drive time from one side of the valley to the other. Zones are another option.

My issue with this trade is what is the value of what he is offering me really worth. I have looked at it many ways.

What is his out of pocket? If I do not use the ad space he can sell it for 15 K to someone else.

For me to get a full page ad all he has to do is add another page. Make the mailer one page longer.

Any ideas or experience on how I should or could objectively look at this from a business standpoint?

Peace,


Rex

[dan deutekom]

I really don't know what the advertising is worth or what it would cost him out of pocket. But I think you may have answered some of your own questions in your post. 20 G's of work is a lot of money to spend on 15 G's advertising that isn't really targeted where you want it. I think I would look closely at what you usually budget for advertising, and where you get the results you are looking for. To me this just dosn't sound like a great deal.

[Stonehenge]

Other than relationships with suppliers, I tend to not do any trades with people, because I always seem to end up on the short end of the stick.

I think part of the reason why was because we'd always take care of my end of the bargain first, and it seemed that once they had the thing done that they wanted, it was like pulling teeth to get them to execute their end of the deal, knowing they had no payday when they completed their part.

I guess I'd not really use Home Depot as a measuring stick - they likely have a marketing budget much larger than yours and can dump $$ down the drain for a long while before any corp HQ would pull the plug on an ad. That they're spending the money on the ad does not mean it's working. They may have inked a deal for 12 mos worth of ads, and wish like heck they could get out of it. What's more, do you really know they are spending $15K per ad? Who did you hear that fig from? Home Depot or this guy? Not saying the guy's lying to you, but you know how things can get exaggerated.

What other kinds of ads are run in this magazine? Is it usually low-end stuff? Like tanning, pizza and the like? If everyone knows it's low-budget stuff in there, they may not think to look there for you, and those that find you there may not be your market (ie can't afford you).

If you think it's hitting a worthwhile market, and you'll get the $$ back out of it, I'd say go ahead and do it. But get him to start ponying up his end first, placing an ad, including production/graphic design.

The flip side of the coin - if the ad does fabulously well, do you have the staff to handle it?

Any more info you can provide?

[Stonehenge]

Rex - any progress on this project?

[Rex Mann]

Not yet. I haven't had the opportunity to meet up with the guy.
We're putting down 20K sf of turfstone. Sun-up to Sun-down.

Thanks for asking. I'll keep you posted. I just received his advertising mailer today in the box.

Peace,

Rex

[site]

Do you need to do this much advertising? Its great to be able to pick your jobs from a bunch of leads, but that's a pretty big bunch. How about a 1/4 page ad going out over 4 times, or split up his job into smaller chunks and test the waters. Also, do you need the additional work?

[Rex Mann]

Finally had a chance to talk to the guy about the marketing. We are on our way to agreement. He offered to front me a half-page ad for as long as I need it. I think six months will be sufficient. Then when I feel I have gotten a fair value, the value of his project, we will call it good. Then I will do his project. Thanks for the input. I'll keep you posted.

Peace,

Rex

[BJR]

I hope I am not too late to add my thoughts.

I think that if you really need the work and think this is a good way to get it, go for it.

BUT!

I would ask your friend to pay for all the materials, and only trade the labour content.

I believe this would be a more reasonable trade.

[diginahole]

That's how I usually handle trade offs too. In fact that is how my two daughters dance lessons will be paid for again this year, same as they were last year. Seems like a good deal for the studio and for me too.