[jwholden]

This one isn't a vent, simply looking for different methods of slaying a dragon that we all have and will face again.

I presented a design for a clients foundation planting and landscape lighting about a month ago. This is a client I have been working for for almost 10 years and they are in my top 10% as far as paying bills promptly and not questioning my services. They are also very friendly people.

The estimate for the landscape and lighting came in around 23. I usually perform around 3-7K worth of work for them yearly. While presenting my estimate I mentioned that before the landscape install would be the perfect time to replace their in ground oil tank. It seemed like the right thing to do....

I talked to my client tonight and they say they would like to go ahead with the install in the spring but the cost of the oil tank threw them off. It adds another 5K to the project.

Here is the kicker, they explain that since they just finished adding a deck on their house, AND IT IS COSTING MORE THAN THE CONTRACTOR ANTICIPATED DUE TO UNEXPECTED CIRCUMSTANCES, they are a little leery about putting that much into their foundation planting. Is there any way that I can 'shave' a little off of the estimate.

I mention holding off on the lights or waiting on part of the installation. However, my client insists they want to keep the integrity of the design but shave some expense off the install. I explain that sometimes I use smaller plants, but it can throw off the scale of the design and I often end up getting the larger sizes because they look better. I ask if they could live without the stepping stones. They didn't seem to eager for that option.

It seems pretty obvious to me that they simply want some money off of the cost of the install. I asked about three times how much shaving they want and finally got an answer of 3K. However, keeping the integrity of the design was stressed once again.

My thoughts are to pull stuff off the job to lower the cost 3K. I know these changes will make a difference compared to the original design. I think they want to hear me call back and say I have magically shaved $1500 off the job and kept everything the same. However, this money would come directly out of Madison's college fund.

Listening to the conversation in my head I think it was a cut and dry negotiating tactic. I'm looking for a cut and dry reply that says we want the job and you will be glad you spent the money.

[PSUscaper]

1. Price the job higher than you would, then reduce it to the price that you wanted and give them the feeling of a deal.

2. Try to figure out some sort of compromise with materials.....use cheaper mulch, cheaper brick, do downsize the plants like perennials from 2 gal to 1 gal(even though you don't want to), make substitutions (ie..hetzi holly for boxwood), elimate a section (like island at the beginning of a walk, or the driveway entrance)

3. Look at your schedule.......do you have other work to make the same money you would if you don't reduce your price? If so, then tell them no way and the price is final, if not...and the job is still profitable, then take it to fill you schedule.

4. reduce sub prices......shop around for oil tank removal.....maybe someone can do it for half the price?

5. community college.......a cheaper option for madison, so maybe she won't need the fund.

and just to add.

I've often found people like this aren't so bad once you start to work and they see how good a job you are doing. They will get half way through the job and you end up doing the things you wanted to because they get a better feel for it once they see it, and start adding on the extras.

Sometimes you also have to take a step back and make sure you are doing what they want, not what you want. You may feel shrubs need to be larger, and maybe they do.......but when the job is done, they are usually happy, you made your money, and that is all there is to it.

[justgardens]

JW- if I remember right Madison is your dog isn't it? I have a high end client that has done this a couple times to me. I wouldn't come down. If my schedule has a light at the end of the tunnel I can take a little off.(that doesn't happen much anymore).It sounds as if these people keep coming back for you. I agree with Penn try to compromise on size of plants or scale back. If they don't want to do that and you have plenty of work to keep you busy you may have to walk. I just think they sound like good clients and the job at that price is something I would not walk away from easily.

[site]

Shave 3k? That's about 15% Most landscapers profit margin is around 10% That means most landscapers would do the job at a loss by just shaving. I would be honest and explain it that way, then try to come to some compromise that keeps the profit margin where it belongs.

[agla]

You have to stress that these prices are not guestimates, but are calculated based on what it costs you to do it and that these are on a fine line between being competitive and being profitable. The prices are what they are. The price can only be lowered by deducting things from it.

Simply tell them that you can not afford to do the job for less and that you understand if they can not afford it and leave the ball in their court. I was trained to do this and it works if they really want you to do it. Once you start any negotiating, it never stops. Thay will sign the contract and you will hear no more about the cost 95% of the time. It puts it to bed.

You have to lock onto the fact that they need you to do this work much more than you need to do it and you have to show that confidence to them or they will doubt that.

[jwholden]

JW- if I remember right Madison is your dog isn't it?

In this great country all creatures have a right to higher education.

[GLAN]

It sounds like you were handling the situation as you should.....Downsizing, removing certain aspects of the project. And so on.

It's not your fault the deck guy went over budget, or that may in fact be an excuse cause they themselves created the added expense to the deck.

Maybe take a couple hundred off your end.......and figure the rest through downsizing and opting to install finishing touches at a later time.....Like the lighting.

[lx665]

Some thing to consider...If you come off your price on this job, what will they except in the future? If you come off your price and make no modifications to the job, will they feel you were trying to cheat them?

John

[Bill Schwab]

Simple answer here...Less for less. you get what you pay for. I sympathise with the added expenses for thier deck, and can undertand that perhaps that contractor found some bad joists that were unforeseen, however, this has nothing to do with your equation.

Remember one thing and one thing only. Along with quality, along with service, and along with paying your employees a decent living wage for thier trade (which by the way helps make your company what it is) YOUR company is entitled to a profit. That is a given. Your profit should be calculated first, never negotiated, and always protected. The price is the price. You have to eat. There is a name that they call businesses who discount customers. It is bancrupt. Is this where you want to be?

[Stonehenge]

JW - I know where you're coming from and have been there and felt like I should give the customer a break - after all, they've been a good customer, right?

But listen to Bill on this - his is the voice of reason, IMHO. They really like your services, right? They'll find a way to afford this.

[VoodooChile]

What a great thread!

I agree with the stand your ground crowd: 1) your business is profitable or bankrupt, 2) they need you, more than you need them, and 3) a client wants a design with integrity to come into being beautifully, then they pay the cost.

After all, who else but you can do what you do?

[justgardens]

JW- Is Madison home from college this weekend for Thanksgiving ? My two and a couple others were laying all over the house this morning in make shift beds on the floors and couches. What beautiful sight to wake up to. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving. I'm counting my blessings!

[NC Lawnscapes]

Ill agree with all of the above and stand your ground you said that the job comes to 23 and they want you to take off 3k that sounds to me like they had a budget of 20 so just let them know what it will take and if you can downsize do that but dont lower your profit at all

ALSO

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[prapoza]

If you want to give them something. How about an extra tree or shrub or whatever... Not because they asked just because you appreciate there business. Good clients don't chisel you, period. I've had clients that spent alot of money, in there mind, and for that they had an expectation that I owed them something in addition to the great job we did for them. Well, I don't expect any more money than I estimate for the work and don't do any less than I promise to do, usually a little more, so why do some people feel they should get more on there end? Because they are chiselers.
Most of my clients have more money than I will ever have, second home owners, I find it rediculous that some of these folks feel they need to save that extra couple of hundred bucks. If your not changing the expense side of the balance sheet, on that particular job, how can you reduce your bill? By taking it out of your back pocket. No thanks, I don't need chiselers no matter how much money they are "giving me".

[Dale Wiley]

I have had clients in a similar situation, but if the client is as good, and long term as you say, THEY should be the ones offering to drop portions of the job to make it fit their budget.

Choose out the portion's of the job that could be DEFFERED until they have the funds to add back in the project. I have several clients that are what I call quarterly spenders. They have us do 3 or 4 little jobs one year, big job the next, etc.

No different than building your business out of net profits instead of debt. Slow, but sure and precise and very sustainable.

They have NEVER tried to get the same thing for less money.