[BlueSky]

I like to know how you guys bring in those 20,000+ jobs? Do you think it is from word of mouth, advertising, or associations that you may belong to?
I've been in business a short time comparied to most of you, but our company has a great reputation. All are clients are more than satisfied and yet we hardly ever get good referrals. The ones we do get are 1,000 to 5,000 dollar jobs. I want the big jobs. Everyone I talk to says that word of mouth keeps them busy all year long, or that is the only advertising that they do. I don't understand why It doesn't work for us!
What do you guys feel works best for you?

[Dale Wiley]

I don't know how large your business is, not that size is a measure of success.

Our business is about $ 190,000 gross per year, with 3.5 employees, fairly small in the realm of contracting business's. We do a lot of jobs in the $ 1,200 to $ 5,000 range, and I will take as many of those as I can get.

Our profit margins are based upon on the hourly rate we need, and we continually exceed that by at least 25% or more. We make more money on the smaller jobs than we do on any larger ones we do, which we don't do a lot of any way. The smaller jobs are easier to schedule, complete and you get paid more often.

We will do 3- $ 1,200 jobs this week in 3 days, with another $ 1,200 in 2 days of maintenance. That's $ 4,800 in 90 employee hours with no overtime. Less materials we still beat our set profit margin in our normal hourly rate by at least 20%. Booked out about 6 weeks right now at that schedule....

[Stonehenge]

Blue -

One of the things you'll find about clients is, birds of a feather flock together. If you have clients hiring you for $5000 and under projects, the referrals you get will most likely be to their friends and family, who also can only afford $5000 and under projects.

There are some 'nature vs nurture' issues when it comes to big projects....In Bill Schwab country, conspicuous consumption is at it's zenith, so people naturally want to spend more (and want it known that they spent more). Not that Bill doesn't kick tail at what he does - he was also smart enough to set up shop where there are lots of people who value the upscale work. That is the 'nature' side of the equation.

If you're in a small, frugal market like I am, you have to hit the 'nurture' side of the equation a lot harder. That means you need to put your face in front of the select few in the market who have the kind of disposable income needed for the big projects. This may be done through family connections at a large local employer that has high-paid staff.

It may be done by building a relationship with your local church (some of the fastest growing companies in my area are led by guys who are great at networking with the flock).

It can be done by wooing the media with your skills and talent, putting your face in front of thousands every so often (which reminds me...I have an article to write....).

It can be done by putting together slick brochures and hanging them on the doors of houses in new developments (run a search here and you'll see what one of our sponsors did for a door hanger for us - looks polished, gets predictable results).

Word of mouth is fabulous, and is our best referral tool as well. But you first have to get your foot in the door of those in the next echelon before they can refer you to their friends of similar income.

Tell me - you say your clients are more than satisfied - how do you know? Do you have them fill out a questionnaire when the job is done? Also, what are the tools you use right now to market your business?

[Bill Schwab]

Dale and Jeff got some great points. High numbers mean squat. Net or your money i.e. what you keep, is HUGE!

If you are looking for large dollar jobs, you need a money town. Lake Geneva Wisconsin, Bannockburn and Kennelworth Illinois, Rancho Santa Fe or La Jolla California, Naples Florida, Hilton Heads Island in the Carolinas, the Hamptons in New York. Those are all the places I researched when considering a move. Ca. won out for seeveral reasons. 1) my wife would not move back to Illinois or go south to other states, as her kids were set and estabilshed here. 2) expendable income. The average family salary in San Diego North County is 175K. 3) this has a I want cause you got it mentaility, which, makes selling cool toys for outdoor living easier. 4) People can enjoy the outdoors here 12 months a year, it never freezes, and rarely gets over 85°, so, when they do a bitch'in back yard, they just extended the living space in thier home for a fracttion of a room additioon.


I see you are from zone 5, and I don't know exactly where that may be, but I would start looking for an affluent money town with a diverse influx of jobs, terrain, and white collar environment. Blue collar towns are where I am most comfortable, but lets get real, blue collar people like getting thier hands dirty and have the mentality that they can save money if they do it themselves

White collar people would love to have all the bells and whistles, and won't get dirty, but before you exhert alot of effort and invest diving into a market, be sure they have the money to pay for what you want to sell them.

And last, pride yourself on excellence. All jobs should be given your all, the best you can give, but higher dollar jobs expect even more than that. Clean jobsites, high quality parts, (even the ones not seen when the job is done) clean trucks, uniforms, etc etc. You can get all the high dollar work you want, if you come pulling up with your dump truck on a tow truck, your client is going to get second thoughts all through the job and it could even go sour. Constant hand holding and communication and daily visits on each job you run are very important. Don't promise you will be on site all day every day, that is a lie if you are like me. Have a good english speaking foreman, and make a 1-2 hour appearance daily and present accurate progress reports. Bill every 3 days, so that way you can meet with the client and walk them through what has been done. More often than not, they want to see progress, and appreciate explainations.

And after the last payment has been made, follow ups calls, and visits. About 2 weeks before any guarantees are ready to expire, call them up, inform them that the guarantee is about to end, and ask them if there is anything you can do for them. Bi monthly? (every other month) newsletters not on ly make your company look more worthy of large dollar jobs, but you would be surprized how much revenue they generate.

It also halps when your competition is out riding the waves and does not return telephone calls after 3 weeks.

[BlueSky]

We have not done questionaires for landscape work, but we do send them out to our lawn cutting clients at the end of the season. We have yet to get a bad review. I'm sure that if a landscape customer was not happy with the work we did they would say something to us.
As far as marketing goes I'll be the first to admitt that we need to improve greatly on it. I't hard though when you work with a small budget. If you have any idaes or would like to share some of the thing you guys do it would be nice. I don't go or belong to a church. Not that I don't believe just hard to find time..
Thanks for all the great responces.

[Dale Wiley]

We send out a Customer survey / Quality assurance report with every monthly bill on maintenance and with every thank you card I send personally after construction jobs.

We also include a pre addressed, not stamped envelope for them to return the survey/ payment in. They are reviewed and filed in the clients file.

We give the client every opportuity to voice and concerns or complaints, and we get damn few, and we react in 24 hours or less to correct the problem, or "percieved" problem.

We just completed a small $ 1,800 job in an upscale manufactured housing park with rich old folks. I WILL NOT do maintenance for anyone over 60. We do a lot of construction for them though. Since all these old duffs have to do is peek out their windows at whatthe neighbors are doing, we had a steady stream of vistors to the job site over the 1.5 days we were there.

We now have 2 more jobs there. Small, quality oriented type jobs.... high profit... love them...

[Stonehenge]

Bluesky -

I've been in the paper about 30 times in the last 5 years, and have been in several magazines and on TV, and almost all of it has cost me less than $500. Search for the thread 'A PR idea I'd like to share' and read through that (that's the one that cost me a few bucks, but it was strictly labor. All materials were donated). Also, pick up the book Guerilla Marketing by Jay Conrad Levinson. If you don't get 5 good ideas from that, you aren't trying.

But tell us - what things are you doing right now to market the biz? Yellow pages? flyers? Ads in the paper?

[Bill Schwab]

There is yet another spin on a certain dollar per job amount of work. Let us assume you know all your numbers very well and you want a certain nitche market that shows your company it's entitled profit margin. You are set up for a certain dollar amount of work, and you work most efficiently in that market.

For us, landscape installations in the range of $35-60,000 are highly profitable, and then between $12,000.00- $20,000.00.

Jobs under $12K can be good, so long as the cleint understands it costs us X amount to operate every day and we cannot compete with a guy working out of a street corner and a pick up truck. If the owner agrees to our pricing on any price value range, we can be assured of a good margin.

I guess a good way to compare would be the pricing of a concrete company we use. Pours up to 500 sf, cost $10.00 a foot. 501-800, $9.00 a foot, and pours over 1000 sf can be done for 6.50 an sf.

[Terry D]

New Clients:


Referrals are the best way to attract new customers.

To get great referrals, you need to provide superior customer service.

Here are a few 'rule of thumbs' for customer service.

1. Always remember you are the seller, the custome ris the buyer. (Seel sell sell - upgrades, add-on's, value added services etc.).

2. If you ever think you're more important than your customers, try running your business without them!

3. Don't be in th ehabit of telling your customers they are wrong, figure out a way to make them satisfied.

4. Deliver what is promised and a little bit more. Some say:
Underpromise - Overdeliver".

5. Going the extra mile for your customer is worth all the paid advertising in th eworld - it speaks volumes about you.

6. Your receptionist if you have one is one of your most valuable sales people.

7. Return your phone calls promptly, roll your calls into your mobile to get them the 'live voice'. (we get hired just for returning calls)

8. Be sincere, its been said "people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" This ties back in with number 5 ("going th extra mile")

As you progress, the jobs get bigger and more detailed, and as others have brought up, once you get into a certain niche market, people will seek you out.

Lastly, make partnerships with architects and designers, these guys have the inside track to work before it let out!!!

Especially use the same coutesy to these guys as you would a customer, as they will have first hand knowledge of your sincerity, and will be less reluctant to endorse your company.

[BlueSky]

Stone,
We run an ad in a paper, our trucks are lettered (3 of them), we just bought polo shiets with the business name on them as well as hats, considering buying a membership to a golf course. That is a BIG maybe though.
Bill,
We do know what we need to charge an hour to make a profit, when we do lose it is because of the helpers, usually, I'll admit I have under bid or forgot somethings a few or more times.
Terry
Most of the things that you listed we already do, all but the receptionise part.

[Stonehenge]

Blue - go out tomorrow and buy the book I recommend above, and read it this weekend.


It can sometimes take a little nerve to take the first marketing leap, contacting media or something similar, but you'll wonder what the fuss was about once you get going.

[Bill Schwab]

Blue:

When you mention that when you loose a profit because of your workers, whats up with that?

One of the things I really focus on and it has been working great is to see each persons talents and to get to know that person and what they give back to our company. We bid according to what person(s) we are placing on that job and maximizing thier abilities, and then, when they come in under the wire, they get paid as though they worked all the budgeted hours. That way, they have incentive to bust tail and get it done.
We may not even charge the same hourly rate for the same job, because if I know I have a guy who is slower or is learning say masonry, does it well, but is just slower, I know we will have to get more money for his time on that job. If we dont get the work, I don't care, because, in order for our company to hold it's margin, we would ahve had to charge what we did for that man to work that job.
Now, knowing full well the employees are going to be rewarded
for working hard, if I under bid for whatever reason, they are all over my rear end, which, is good. Not that I underbid, rather that they care enough to tell me I screwed up so I don't make that mistake again.

It works well for the size company we run at this time. That is the fun part about the grow process. You can change anc tweek for every thing that you see you need to.

[Terry D]

Bill funny that you mentioned that you charge more to compensate for a slow worker.

I've battled this thought process myself.

If you have an expert flagstone mason making $40 an hour, and he can do 200 feet per 8 hour day That converts to 25 feet per hour/ or $1.60 per foot.

What would you bid for slow poke, who lays 8 foot per hour?

How do you hash out the productivity? Do you just figure slow poke makes 1/4 of the speed demon?

Lastly, I believe the main reasons people are fast is because they know their trade and don't really have to think about it. Thinking takes time, and usually you can always see the difference in craftmanship even though dollar wise it was a push.

This is a tricky slope to manuever.

[BlueSky]

Bill,
It sounds like you are able to charge whatever you need and still get the jobs. That must be nice. In my market there are a lot of small companies with no overhead or little overhead so we have to be competitive. I don't want to be but in order to keep my men working I have to be. Don't get me wrong I am not bidding agains low ballers and never will.
I have been thinking of ways to motivate the employees. Some sort of incentive plan. Still working on that.
As far as placing employees where they need to be I really don't have that option. I only have 3 Landscapers and they have to be universal. 2 of them are great and the 3rd is a helper. Don't get me wrong, they don't lose money all the time, It probably happens a hand ful of times through the year.
Stone,
I will definitly by the book. I'll wait to the slow season though that is when I do most of my reading. Last year I read The E myth contractor, Good to Great, and How to mind read your customers. I really enjoyed the E myth contractor.

[BlueSky]

By the way, thank you guys for all the help.