[JPPatios]

I have used premium lights from lighting specialty stores and the cheap stuff from Home Depot (Malibu). What do you guys prefer and why? Obviously the high-end stuff is real nice, but many customers can't wrapped their heads around the cost. I usually end up selling the cheap stuff. Any in between?
Jim

[PSUscaper]

If the client can't afford using good lights, then they probably don't want to pay much for the cheap ones either.

Low voltage lights such as malibu are exactly what the price dictates. Garbage. If you want to install garbage, then you know what usually happens. You deal with garbage.

Install cheap pavers and you get all the problems associated with cheap pavers. If you install the cheap pavers with cheap installation techniques (like no base) you get even more problems.

If the client can't justify the cost of using quality materials, it is most likely they can't justify quality in general.

I install the high end lights because I WANT higher end customers. The two go hand in hand.

Also, if they complain about the cost of the low voltage, have them call a electrician and get a price for high voltage, then see what they say. The malibu lights simply do not perform like other lights. A good low voltage system will work as well as a high voltage system.

There is no real in between. You need to first, educate the customer on what they are paying for, second, tell the customer that there is a BIG difference in what they will get, and third, and most important, build a better customer base that are willing to pay for quality lights if the ones you have will not.

Its a matter of what direction you want to head in. I have found that I had trouble selling high end lights because I had low end customers, or, because I did not make a good enough sales pitch for the products that I use.

I would not do lights at all if I had to install malibu. I know it sounds kind of extreme, but that is the direction I want my company to go in. Its the same thing as installing 1 gal home depot shrubs as opposed to 3 gal nursery shrubs.

[Stonehenge]

I prefer the higher end stuff, mainly because I know it's going to perform consistently over time, and the designs and capabilities of the higher end stuff are more varied and interesting.

That being said, I've also installed the cheaper stuff.

But my preference is to install the better brands of lights (and transformers).

[dan deutekom]

I always use the high end stuff. But it seems that even the expensive stuff has lousy connectors and bulb sockets. I always solder and then use heat shrink tubing on every connection to avoid call backs for corroded connections. I also use dielectric grease on the light bulb.

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by dan deutekom
But it seems that even the expensive stuff has lousy connectors...

I agree.

Why is that?

I have a drawer full of those junk connectors.

[dan deutekom]

This week I was called in to revamp some very expensive low voltage lighting that had totally quit working. It was installed about 15 years ago. It came down to corroded connectors at every light. What amazed me was that when I cut and stripped the wire so that I could solder the connections the wire was also showing corrosion. It seems the moisture eventually gets through the insulation. This was a good heavy 12 gauge wire and it wasn't even near where it was punctured by the stock connectors.

[HRLand]

I don't do many lighting installs per year and it's probably because I won't use the cheap stuff. A friend of mine actually had a mulch fire in his front yard beacause of the lousy connectors that come with malibu lights. He was lucky (and embarrased) that it happened during a block party. Normally he would be sleeping at 10pm. We use the silicone filled wire nuts for connections and never had a problem.

[nightscapespaul]

Originally posted by dan deutekom
This week I was called in to revamp some very expensive low voltage lighting that had totally quit working. It was installed about 15 years ago. It came down to corroded connectors at every light. What amazed me was that when I cut and stripped the wire so that I could solder the connections the wire was also showing corrosion. It seems the moisture eventually gets through the insulation. This was a good heavy 12 gauge wire and it wasn't even near where it was punctured by the stock connectors.

What you experienced with the corrosion of the wire is called "wicking". On a bad connection, the electricity actually pulls the water up the wire. You can find this problem 20' up a wire sometimes.

I am a stand alone landscape lighting company and only use the high end lighting products and turn down low end projects all the time. It all depends on where you want your company to go and how you want to get there. Installing a cheap system will give you a reputation for installing garbage. I have a 100% client satisfaction rate and 95% of my business is by referral. If you install garbage, you will not get referral business and your clients will be upset when those fixtures start falling apart. They may not tell you, but you can bet that they are telling their friends.

Anyway, that's my $.02 worth,

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by nightscapespaul
What you experienced with the corrosion of the wire is called "wicking". On a bad connection, the electricity actually pulls the water up the wire. You can find this problem 20' up a wire sometimes.

It is amazing that water can work its way into those little pin prick punctures that are made by those connections

[NCSULandscaper]

i had gotten so fed up with those connectors that i now use regular wire nuts and dip the whole connection in liquid electrical tape to waterproof the connection, but we use high end fixtures, mainly Unique, Kitchler, and Lightcraft

[Fine Edge]

We only use silicone filled wire nuts. Using the cheapo wire pricking devices is the cheap way to go, even though we find some reputable higher end fixtures being packaged with these things.

[zackkcaz]

where would you be able to purchase the high end landscape lighting, if the malibu lights at home depot arnt very good quality?

[nightscapespaul]

Check your local irrigation supply or try www.terradek.com or www.callite.com .

[NCSULandscaper]

www.cascadelighting.com
www.lightcrafteast.com

i have been using a lot of lightcraft lately and am very satisfied witht he quality as well as the price that they offer. Give them a call and you can buy direct from the factory

[Inspired]

Originally posted by NCSULandscaper
i had gotten so fed up with those connectors that i now use regular wire nuts and dip the whole connection in liquid electrical tape to waterproof the connection, but we use high end fixtures, mainly Unique, Kitchler, and Lightcraft

Hey Matt:

Try using silicone paste filled wire nuts made by King Safety. I've been using them for 10 or 12 years now with good results. You can buy a version of them at Homo Depot to try them out, but the irrigation supply or electrical supply houses sell them cheaper. Vista has been including them in all their fixture boxes for 6 or 7 years now.

The problem is the insulation on the wire continually "cures" and shrinks slightly. Any hole you punch in it will become slightly larger and hard over time. Then as Paul said the electrical current "wicks" the moisture up the wire.

Using silicone seal on MR11 or MR16 bulbs works well to waterproof the sockets and it holds the bulbs in place well too. Personally I think some sort of sealer or grease should be used on all bulb sockets, junction boxes, screws, hinges, whatever. It really makes the system easier to service later and the system last much longer.

My .02