[VoodooChile]

Managing Water Run-off is getting plenty of press these days in the trade journals, and the primary emphasis is on switching from the old school approach of moving rain water off-site to utilizing run-off rain water on-site.

It's a broad topic-- and I've no clue Stone which forum it belongs in-- but I am considering implementing one simple instance of this paradigm shift in my home landscape by drilling holes in the gutter shown below, 1) to provide some moisture to plants up under the eaves of the house, and 2) minimize the water rolling down our long gravel driveway. It would be good too if drilling some holes in the gutter alleviated the ice-damming going on this year.

I've a couple of questions for anyone who has ever tried this: #1) What diameter hole is optimal-- not too small to prevent clogging and not too large to avoid concentrating too much water in one spot? #2) How many holes per linear foot of gutter would be optimal? and #3) What drawbacks are there to doing this, especially considering the frequent freezing/thawing that occurs during mid-West winters?

Thanks beforehand for the input!

[Stonehenge]

I can't provide a ton of input other than we had a client this year have us create a similar function for her sump pump discharge. We created a network of perforated piping to deliver the discharge water to her plant beds instead of into the municipal system. Since we only did this a few months ago I can't say much about the success of it.

I will say we put more holes at the end of the pipe than we did at the start of it, to try to evenly disperse the water. Uncertain as to the success of that tactic - haven't been there to see it in action.

As for the location of the thread - looks as good as any.

[VoodooChile]

Here's the gutter. It has 10' of 4/12" pitched roof behind most of it, except the section closest to the viewer, which collects water from both a 15' long valley, and water from a higher section of roof.

The water terminates into a down-spout seen furtherest from the viewer, which then empties into a drain tile that terminates onto the gravel drive. Next Spring I plan to interrupt the down spout with a rain barrell sitting on an outcropping stone, to collect water for the various flower pots the girls like to set and neglect on the porch.

I wouldn't drill holes above the stone step. The eave is about 2' wide. There are several shrubs under the eave, including a couple future POTWs which will remain incognito.

[Paul]

Why not look into a underground cistern? A large enough one could water more than just a few plants. On a 2000 sq ft roof a one inch rain fall would give you 240 cu ft of water or 1795 gallons.

[VoodooChile]

Excellent idea Paul! We have about 2700 sq.ft. of roof, and a well-pump that had to be lowered 30' to 340' when we moved in. I haven't been looking forward to maintaining excess stock and watering crops here at the new place, but an underground cistern would be ideal.

I am still interested in the holey gutter approach for the plants under the eaves, and to alleviate the ice-damming...

[dan deutekom]

Instead of drilling holes would this be a better soloution?
http://www.rainhandler.com/rainphot.html

[r schipul]

I would also recommend a cistern. I have been thinking of installing one at my house because I hate to see all that good water go to waste.

As for the holes, I'd be concerned about the splashback. Before I drilled any holes in a brand new gutter I'd at least hang some drilled pvc 8' in the air and see what it does to the mulch and deck. I would imagine you'd also have some massive icicles at your drill holes every winter. If you're having trouble with ice make sure you have enough pitch in the gutter and enough insulation at the beginning of the roof line. sounds like you have some heat escaping.

[VoodooChile]

Yeah, the ice damming is only occurring in the poorly insulated sections of the house, the circa 1956 section that we retained. The 2005 addition was built for energy star status, and the gutters draining its roofline are ice-free. We intend to blow-in insulation to beef up the attic of the old section, which will help. I just figured a well-draining gutter would eliminate the ice formation that builds into dams.

My primary concern remains getting water under the eaves, and filling a rain barrell. The cistern will work for all the other downspouts, but not this one, due to location.

The Rain-handler looks pretty slick, but I would need to see one in the flesh before I stuck it on the front of my house. And the front step can't get hammered with water...

[r schipul]

I've found that in our old building that the ice dams actually occur at the edge of the roof first and then work it's way towards the gutter. Once you blow in insulation it should help prevent the buildup from starting. We have had good success at preventing the ice dams by scraping the edge of the roof after every snow. That way the roof stays cold enough to prevent any melting. The rainhandler is made in our area. The heavier the rain the farther it throws the water. As the rains stops, the water from the rainhandler becomes more of a drip which would mean a wet front step.

[dan deutekom]

Rainhandler seems to have a soloution for the front door as well.

http://www.rainhandler.com/doorbrel.html

[agla]

Why not remove the gutter?

[Paul]

agla is right you will have a hard time stopping ice dams under that unheated roof area. Heated area above it will cause the snow to melt then refreeze over the exposed portion. A diverter on the roof would allow rain to miss the entrance and water the plants at the roof line.

[VoodooChile]

agla,
I wouldn't want to remove the gutter, because the amount of water coming off the valley would wreak havoc on the step and grade. By drilling holes in the gutter past the step, I could get water under the eave to benefit what's planted there, fill a rain barrell for filling watering cans to water pots on the porch, and reduce the run-off on the drive.

[VoodooChile]

The majority of the unheated roof area isn't creating the ice-dam, shown here to the left. The ice-dam is occuring where heated roof-areas terminate over unheated areas, shown here to the right...does that make sense?

We will beef up the insulation of the attic of the old part of the house in the next few weeks which should combat the ice damming, shown directly above the step for those of you from the south who've never seen such a monster.

[VoodooChile]

It is interesting to note how the gutters on the new part of the house-- the part that is Energy Star rated-- don't have ice-dams.

Never thought this would turn into a photo-essay on gutters and ice-dams...