[stonenewbie]

Hello All,

Yep, I'm brand new to this site-- which I have to say is just an incredible source of information, and wealth of knowledge. I am glad to have found it, and look forward to interacting.

I am getting ready to install a blue stone patio, approximately 14x16 at my house and am looking for some confirmation on the method that everyone I've spoken to seems to be steering me towards.

As a background, I am in Maryland, so as far as climate goes we obviously experience the freeze/thaw cycle during the winter. I'm planning to lay thermal bluestone in the project.

Now, as far as the site prep I was planning on excavating to about 10" below finished grade, tamping and then installing a landscape fabric between the subsoil and the next layer, approx 6" pack/crusher run tamped well in a couple of lifts. Then, I'll put down about 2" stone dust tamped and lay the bluestone accordingly. Any necessary cuts were going to be made with a circular saw with diamond blade, but I'm wondering if a grinder would be easier to use. I was going to use stone dust mixed with a bit of portland cement swept into the joints for extra hold on the joints.

I assume that after the stone is down, it is necessary to install an edge restraint to keep everything together and then backfill to the restraint? And, I've been thinking of edging the patio out with granite pavers, or something similar. Should I plan on 1/2" joints with the thermal, or is that too much? Also, do you all think that the base I have planned will be adequate for the bluestone?

I am new at this and I am trying to do as much research as possible prior to starting.

Look forward to hearing from all of you, and thanks for any help.

[stonenewbie]

Anyone???

[LabourofLove]

I've done some bluestone patio work here in Zone 3, but I'm damned if I know what 'thermal' bluestone is. Enlighten me, please.

[Stonehenge]

Moved to homeowner help forum.

@Stonenoob, keep in mind the folks here are pros and usually are more interested in spending their time improving their business, as it improves their livelihood. While members are often generous with their time when it comes to homeowners, it does not improve their bottom line, so the homeowner Q's often get pushed to the back burner.

To the Q's at hand -

The depth sounds good. Landscape fabric is not designed for this application and would be a waste of time and dollars. If you want to use a fabric, use something designed for the purpose like a Mirafi N series geotextile.

Unless you intend to donate the circular saw to the local dump when you're done, don't use it. Either rent a handheld cutoff saw or a tub saw for your cuts. But don't cut off your fingers!

I'm not sure, but I don't think there's a square inch of Maryland that falls into Zone 9, meaning your patio will be subjected to freeze-thaw, which would make the portland mix idea less than ideal. Try polymeric sand instead.

Depending on the surface size and thickness of the stone, you may not need an edge restraint at all. For flagstone projects we seldom use it. Plus, if you're going to use a Belgian cobble-type stone as a soldier course, that would handle that role.

If the stone is random, consistent 1/2" joints will be a lot of work, but it'd look nice. If it's patterned, that sounds about right.

@Kate - Thermal(ized) Bluestone.

[LabourofLove]

Thanks for the heads-up on flamed stone. Does it affect the integrity of the stone in areas of severe freeze/thaw? I'm not wild about using bluestone because of its' inherent flaking every Spring: does flaming accelerate the process?

[agla]

Unless you use either irregular bluestone (broken, not cut into rectangles) or all the same sized stone, the joint size is already set by whoever cas cut it and you will not have a choice. You could probably have it custon cut if you absolutely had to have a certain joint size.

Think about it. If you lay two 1'x1' stones next to each other with a 1/2" joint and then lay a 2' stone next to them the edges would not line up. All of the stone would have to be cut 1/2" short in order to have a 1/2" joint or 5/8" short to have a 5/8" joint.

[GLAN]

Originally Posted by LabourofLove

Thanks for the heads-up on flamed stone. Does it affect the integrity of the stone in areas of severe freeze/thaw? I'm not wild about using bluestone because of its' inherent flaking every Spring: does flaming accelerate the process?

When you are saying flaking of Blue Stone.......are you talking about Slate?

I have never seen blue stone flake......our winter is not as extreme as yours, but we do have it and numerous freeze thaw cycles, often times daily

[agla]

Lower quality bluestone flakes and splits along natural layers. Flaming it burns of loose flakes and material off of the surface. They only flame higher quality bluestone because they don't want to wate effort on stones that might split or have other problems that make them less marketable. They flame, and saw-cut for even thickness, dense high quality even stone. $$$$$

If you live great distances from where bluestone is mined, it probably makes sense that lower quality stone is not shipped to your area because of the cost of shipping vs. profit and marketability.

It is a technique to even out the texture and make a consistent surface throughout the patio. It has nothing to do with freeze/thaw protection. However, because it is only the high quality dense bluestone that they make this effort on, it is going to be the most durable bluestone against all conditions.

[LabourofLove]

Originally Posted by GLAN

When you are saying flaking of Blue Stone.......are you talking about Slate?

I have never seen blue stone flake......our winter is not as extreme as yours, but we do have it and numerous freeze thaw cycles, often times daily

I don't think it was slate - it was sold to me as 24" bluestone squares, but over time layers fracture and peel away.

[FungusMudGrub]

I have to say that a circular saw can be an ok choice; I've used my makita on one or two small stone jobs a year for the last 7 years, maybe, as well as using it for carpentry. It's still holding up well. I really like it better than a gas saw because it's so light. Just do a lot of shallow cuts, instead of trying to force it through all at once, and keep the rpms up.

[stonenewbie]

Thanks to all for the help, and thanks Stonehenge for the info about the different forums; I should have looke things over more carefully and found a better place to post. I am far from a 'professional' .

I'll post some pics when its underway.

Thanks again.

[TigardGuy]

I just bought some bluestone for a fireplace hearth. I guess the stones are not high quality as they show layer cracks on some edges.

The stones will be raised about 4 inches off the floor and so the cut edge will show and so I'd like to "soften" it. The supplier told me about flaming them with an oxy-acetylene torch, but after reading comments above, I'm concerned that it may destroy a stone or two and wish to avoid it. Is grinding a reasonable approach for those exposed edges? Or is there another method I could use besides flaming or chiseling, both of which may crack or split the stone?

Thanks!

[TerraSerenity]

Yes Agla is correct to add. Seems to be a little confusion on the Thermal- in our area this stone is cut to size 1.5 inch think CONSISTENT from stone to stone! Texture is similar to a sandblasted materials- making it safe to walk on with any weather and a DREAM TO LAY!

Choices in Cut stone starting from the most expensive to least:
-Blue (Blue) Thermal- consistent BLUE colors from stone to stone 1.5 inch thick sandblast like surface. Very easy to work with (no personality looks like Pavers) around $7.50 SF
- Mulit Thermal ( stones are mulit color) same as above $6.50 SF

Blue Natural Cleft- all blue sizes ranging from 1.5-3 inch harder to level if your a first timer, natural surface with more stone like texture not smooth like Thermal. $4.75 SF Yes it can Flake, yes it can crack when you compact it- be sure to make up for broken stones.

Multi Natural Cleft- same as above with more colors ranging from Blue-reds to Blue-greens more rustic look- not for every one. $4.50 SF

Picture is a walk I did using Multi Natural Cleft 1.5-3 2x2 SQ Gator polymeric sand, 2 inch yes-blue stone dust! Paver edging.....ect in -

Living so close to PA makes it easy to get a lot of PA Blue stone. Easy to cut fun to work with. Slate is a much denser stone which also ranges in colors and can also come from PA and many other states and countries. EXPENSIVE!

Stonenewbie- feel free to contact me direct. I'd be happy to help you out. I'm not sure if your buying from the guys in my Neighborhood? They have the largest selection of Blue stone in the Baltimore Metro area!

Back to saws- If your not working with 3 inch stones I would suggest picking up the Work Force wet saw they sell at Home Depot in the tile section for around $65 or if you have a lot of cuts Rent something. As listed in all the above posts. Or just stop over to Harbor Freight tools and pick up a some thing there along with all there affordable blades. They will get you going for just this job. Have fun!

[stonenewbie]

Mark,

Sent you a PM and email. Thanks!