Ground Trades Xchange - a landscaping forum

Go Back   Ground Trades Xchange - a landscaping forum > Landscape Services > Homeowner Help
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:35 PM
beaver1's Avatar
Acorn
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 18
beaver1 is an unknown quantity at this point
I am at the stage of applying poly sand to my pavers but I have a few concerns. The product is Unilock's Uni-care Polymeric Sand.
I would like to tap into the invaluable experience you have had out there with this product, and see how you deal with it.
My first concern is Temperature. The instructions say it should not be applied below 60 F. and if applied in cooler conditions, it would not harden and set properly. I usually tend to heed the instructions on a lable. After all, it is their product and one would think that they must have conducted extensive tests to come up with these numbers. However, I am running out of time here - these few months we have had a lot of rainy days and now, the temperatures are in the low 50s at best. So, my question is, how critical it is to adhere to the specified temp figure, and how you would handle it if you were in my position. Incidentally, the job site is always tarped when raining to minimize dampness from rain water.
My second concern is the application method. The conventional way is to sweep the sand and use the compactor to pack the sand in the grooves, which makes perfect sense of course. But for those of you - and I am one of those - who pre-compact the bedding layer and do not use the compactor on the pavers, is sweeping alone adequate?
And finally - and this may be off topic - how do you go about compacting small areas like stairs that, i.e. measure 2-3 feet in depth (thread). Idially one would like to use the plate compactor, but it is very inconveniant, especially when it is a one way compactor. The obvious alternative of course is the hand tamper, but I always wondered whether I am missing something here. Any other ways to achive a good compaction in these cases?
Looking forward to any ideas and suggestions.


Admin edit: This discussion has been included in the site beginner's polymeric sand page.

Last edited by Stonehenge; 08-22-2007 at 12:09 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:56 PM
scl's Avatar
scl scl is offline
Gold Oak Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dixon, IL
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 401
scl is on a distinguished road
First, I have definitely used poly under 60 degrees, and only stop when its freezing, with good results. Don't fear it, it will work. Second, there is a huge thread on poly sand do's and don'ts, that will give you some good tips and help you you out. I'll post the link. Third, and don't take this wrong, look up an ICPI course on installations. Seems to me you're setting yourself up for a paver failure, andfrom someone who's learned from the school of hard knocks, you can save yourself alot of headaches.
Just my $.02.
Scott
__________________
If there were 3 of me, I'd only be 2 weeks behind!
Do I stay or do I grow now?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:30 PM
beaver1's Avatar
Acorn
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 18
beaver1 is an unknown quantity at this point
scl, thanks for the timely response.
Quote:
Second, there is a huge thread on poly sand do's and don'ts, that will give you some good tips and help you you out. I'll post the link.
I assume this thread is in the GTX archives? Looking forward for the link.
Quote:
Third, and don't take this wrong, look up an ICPI course on installations. Seems to me you're setting yourself up for a paver failure
I think you are referring here to the pre-compacting of the bedding layer versus the conventional method of laying pavers on screeded 1" (washed concrete), sand and compacting the pavers to achive interlock. This is interesting, because there seems to be two schools here that swear by their method being the better one to achieve the best results.
Check the following thread, "Paver height" Paver height I would like to hear your take on this.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 03:17 PM
Matt Kulp's Avatar
Gold Oak Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South East Pa
USDA Zone 7
Posts: 395
Matt Kulp is on a distinguished road
Use up until freezing and your fine.

Just sweeping and no compaction will be fine if you are not concerned about filling the joints. When you fill and then compact, the sand settles and it enables you to fill the whole joint. If you just sweep and water, then you may have some settling of the poly sand down the road.

"Compacting small areas", we use some protection over the area (carpet, wood, tamper pad, etc.., and use a hand tamper.

As far as compacting screedings, "different strokes, for different folks". I know many people that lay right on fine graded modified, I know guys that compact dust, I know guys that lay on clean stone, and our company lays on screeded concrete sand. Many of the guys that I am refering too, do great work. Its all about your comfort zone and what gives YOU the best results. The only thing that I feel that may open non conventional methods up to criticism would be if something fails and Non Industry approved methods were used. Then it becomes a question of who is right and who is wrong. JMO
__________________
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:44 PM
scl's Avatar
scl scl is offline
Gold Oak Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dixon, IL
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 401
scl is on a distinguished road
Sorry, got caught up in something and forgot. Here you go
the 'sticky' side to polymeric sand
Scott
__________________
If there were 3 of me, I'd only be 2 weeks behind!
Do I stay or do I grow now?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2006, 12:58 AM
beaver1's Avatar
Acorn
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 18
beaver1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Scott, thanks for posting the link, even though I had read it earlier. great ideas there.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2006, 02:05 AM
beaver1's Avatar
Acorn
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
USDA Zone 5
Posts: 18
beaver1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Today we had a break in the weather and I applied the poly sand to the paved areas.
Matt, you were right in regards to using compaction to insure thorough penetration of the sand and I guess that's where Scott's concern was coming from. I used a hand tamper - since the area is relatively small - with a hard foam pad (similar to an exercise Pad) as buffer. I tamped and swept three times followed by a thorough sweep and used a blower at a low speed to remove the remaining haze. I finally misted the surface (very fine spray) three times at 8-10 min. intervals. I think it turned out OK.
I have a question though regarding curing times. I am aware that the time required for curing is dependant on temperature and humidity. What is the usual curing time of this stuff, and at this time of year where the temp. here is 45-50 F. how long should one expect to wait for it to set.
And finally, these bags contain a certain amount of sand and polymers. When using a broom to sweep this stuff, there is no way to distribute the same ratio of sand and polymer to all the areas of the job equally. So it is safe to say that some areas will have the right amount of polymer and set properly whereas other areas will have little or no polymers and not set as intended.
What do you think?
Reply With Quote
Reply

You might like the following content from the Ground Trades Xchange, served by Google:

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Free Landscaping Magazines
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flagstone and Polymeric Sand VoodooChile Hardscaping 18 02-07-2012 11:07 PM
the 'sticky' side to polymeric sand PSUscaper Hardscaping 49 08-09-2011 07:02 PM
Compacting pavers with polymeric sand Yardslave Homeowner Help 12 12-05-2007 10:09 PM
Here we go....the big poly debate! PSUscaper Hardscaping 19 09-22-2007 04:16 PM
Polymeric advice trees Hardscaping 17 07-14-2006 01:04 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2003-2016 Ground Trades Xchange, LLC