[danbuza]

I will be installing a raised paver patio in my back yard. I have a bay window/doorwall approximately 17 inches from the ground at the back of my house. My question is how should I block out the space under my bay window/doorwall?

Assuming my paver patio is higher than 17 inches, it will butt up against the bay. I assume i need to somehow pack base material under the bay so that the base under the patio doesn't give into the void. If this is the correct solution, how do i compact this area? Hand tamp from the side?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Stonehenge]

Danbuza, first I'll welcome you to the site.

But I have to be straight with you - a raised patio is beyond the ability of most homeowners. Not all, but almost every homeowner-built elevated patio I've ever seen either looked awful the day it was completed, or had massive settling and other problems within 12 months. This link is an example of a failed raised paver patio that was installed by the homeowner.

It's not that there are specific tasks that someone outside the field can't accomplish, just that there is a great deal of experience that goes into a successful project like this, and there is just not a reasonable expectation of success for someone without a good deal of hardscaping, or at least construction experience.

That being said, you should consider building a retaining wall structure that follows the lines of the house, but does not go under that bay - it will not be possible to sufficiently compact that area, and even if you could, packing layers of stone against siding and OSB will result in rotting wood sheathing and studs in your home.

Be sure to over-excavate in depth and width, and don't skimp on compaction equipment.

But I would rather endorse your searching our member list for a contractor in your area specializing in this kind of work (you didn't list where you're from, so I can't help you much there). I think the odds for a great project are substantially improved that way.

Good luck with your project.

[scl]

First off let me say I agree with Jeff about seeking out a prfessional for a raised patio. But that said, I did a patio last year with 2 bay windows hanging over. Compated under them with a 4 lb. hammer and a 2x4, laying on my belly. Laid the pavers the same way. What a pain in the backside. Timewise it takes forever.

[Bill Schwab]

There is another way to pluck that goose.... Instead of preparing the area against the foundation/under bays as you would for a segmental wall backing, you can dig to the frost line, and trench pour a footing with rebar ever 16" vertically from the top, then lay an 8-8-16 block backer. But your segmental units up to that and just match elevations then infill with gravel, compact and lay pavers. By digging instead of compacting, you can save a little work, and throw the spoils under the patio section to save gravel infill. This worked pretty well for us.

And I also have to agree with Jeff and SCL about having a pro do the patio for you. Lots of tricks you need to know/learn to make one of them come together the right way.

[danbuza]

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

I really don't consider myself a "typical homeowner". Although I'm not a carpenter by trade, I have taken on several projects around the house that would be considered "very dificult" for the typical homeowner. Since I have successfully completed 3 paver projects in the past (though on a much smaller scale) and since I have spent several months planning and preparing for this, I'm quite comfortable installing it myself.

Having said that, my only other "major concern" is the pitch of the finished patio. My supplier suggested that the retaining wall be level all the way around with the pavers pitched at the center to the outside away from the house. When asked how to do this, his recommendation was to level it first, then add extra paver base by hand to create the desired pitch. I orignally thought that the retaining wall (and pavers to match) would need to be pitched from the house down to the yard (which seems impossible). Does anyone have a better suggestion?

Anyway, it sounds like there are a few ways to approach my bay doorwall issue. As I eluded to earlier, my local hardscape supplier has been answering all my tough questions up to this point. When I stumbled upon your forum the other day, I thought that this would be another valuable resource to get expert advice. I will take these ideas to my hardscape supplier and discuss them further before making any decisions.

Thanks again for your help.

[Bill Schwab]

If you build the walls first, you can take a screed board, notch the ends for the right paver depth, and cut a 1% pitch out of the screed board so you would use the sand to add the pitch. So long as the gravel base is higher in the middle that would accomodate the thicker center.

[Stonehenge]

And if the patio is too large for that, cut a single notch (1/8" smaller than the depth of the pavers for compaction), and use a 1" steel EMT conduit pipe as a screed guid down the middle.

[scl]

Another trick along the lines of Jeff's is to set your screed conduit, then get some non organic (plastic) shims and align to pitch. Ideally, you should be at around 1" for every 8 feet.

[danbuza]

My hardscape supplier offered me another suggestion for the bay/doorwall. He suggested filling the space under the bay with my base (tamping from the side) then applying a thin layer of tar around the bay where the pavers will meet the wood stucko. The tar is supposed to provide protection from water. At this point, I may not go through the extra trouble and cost required to build up to the doorwall. I'm leaning toward building the patio a few inches below the bay doorwall which will save me some time, trouble and money.

If i do leave a few inches below the bay, i will have to lay a thin bead of concrete edging that follows around the bay to keep the pavers locked in - then fill the area under the bay with stones. I guess i'll have to hide the opening with some planters.

[Stonehenge]

Keep in mind that most local hardscape suppliers do not actually install the stuff. It tends to make their advice less credible, IMHO. Like getting surgery advice from a guy who plays a doctor on TV.

[AZTLANLC]

The money and time you'll save now will not be suficcient to repair the damage it will cause eventually to the house, do it right the first time.
Any advice you get from most person in this forum is backed by thousands and thousands of sqf sucesfully installed not by people that sells the product only and will not guaranteed the installation, ask your suplier if he would guarantee, it will not settle and damage the house if done his way.

[danbuza]

My hardscape supplier is a very reputable company with several people who have experience in using everything they sell. I have gone to great lenghts to make sure that the folks i'm dealing with can adequately answer my questions. In fact, there are other suppliers in the area who sell a bit cheaper. I think I'm making the right decision to buy from those who have hands on experience behind the desk.

On the other hand, I have taken into account all the concerns in this thread and realize more than ever some of the challenges i will potentially face. My plans for this project are very ambitious for someone who has not performed a job (at this scale) in the past. The fact is, I'm willing to put in the hard work to save money. As long as i do my homework, take my time, and do it right - I'm confident this will be successful.

The plan is to build a raised paver patio with built in seating and 4 pillars using Oaks Ortana wall block and Romanesque pavers. I will post some pictures once complete (for anyone interested).

[danbuza]

I've just about completed the retaining wall portion of my raised patio. I'm at the point now where I need to make some saw cuts to the retaining wall blocks where I've got a 45 degree corner. The wall blocks are 6 inches thick. If i use a handheld circular saw (7 1/4 inch), what type of blade would anyone recommend for 2 weekends worth of work? ...and where can I find one?

[HardDaysKnight]

Bladewizard could help you out. Heres his liknk.

http://www.groundtradesxchange.com/f...info&userid=19

[Stonehenge]

Actually, I wouldn't recommend using your circular saw, unless you plan on tossing it in the trash when you're done. The fine dust from the cutting (whether you use an abrasive or diamond blade) will get into the moving parts of your saw and ruin it. Not a big deal if it's a $40 saw, but if you'd like to hang on to it, go to your rental yard and rent a 16" cutoff saw from Partner or Stihl.