[bryand]

So I am laid off from an occupation unrelated to landscaping etc. I really want to get into hardscaping but have no idea how to go about it. I am a little old to be starting this (34) but I know I am capable of this work both physically and mentally. Problem is I have no experience. I was making 45k in my previous occupation and need to approach that income level quickly, not to say that I am unwilling to suffer for a few years. I have a college degree and eight years of labor and project management experience. I have had a number of jobs in high school/college in landscaping/grounds keeping but I really get excited about hardscaping. Any advice? School/courses? Should I shadow somebody for free while I am laid off? What is the industry like in Ohio? Advancement potential? Should I stop dreaming?

Thanks for any info!

[agla]

It is a bad time to be going into this. The was steady growth in this for the last 10-15 years. That means the number of businesses has grown and the amount of people with experience right now is huge - many have lost thir jobs and are looking for new careers in something different also. There is so much less work now and so many established and experienced people to do it that it would make it really difficult.

However, you can start by visiting hardscape material suppliers and seeing when they will be having manufacturers teaching seminars. These arte often done for free in order to get people out there selling their products for them.

The hardest part for a newbie is going to be having peple find you, then choosing to go with your potential over someone else's track record, and then for you to be able to be efficient enough to compete (it will take you longer to do a good job than someone doing it for the last 15 years).

Notice that I said "having peple find you". This is an industry that is all about timing. Advertising is only effective on those who need you now. Its in one ear and out the other unless you are there at that very small gap between the moment they know they need you and the moment when they find someone who they feel will do a good job at a good price. That process really sucks for most people, so they give up and select someone after only dealing with a few people.

Typically, there has been some other type of construction or repair that has happened so there are other contractors or architects or engineers dealing with the property owner. Nine times out of ten the homeowner is going to ask them for recommendations before hitting the web or yellow pages. Or, those contractors will already be going after the work or trying to get their buddies in there. Contractors who used to stick to their most profitable skill sets are now looking for other work to fill in their schedules - instead of hiring subs, many are doing the work of the subs with their own guys.

This is a segment of the economy that is one of the most hurt and has a lot of other laid off people move into it because it is easy to get into, but really hard to compete in.

[bryand]

Wow, not exactly what I wanted to hear! Oh well, I guess I will follow your advice and just start gathering as much knowledge as possible, getting my name/face known locally as willing to learn for cheap. Maybe then I will have a leg (or at least a stump) up when the economy turns around.

If anybody else has anything to add I would love to hear it!

Thanks!

[Mac]

what part of OH are you in? If you are local, I can point you in a few directions.

[bryand]

Columbus area (Gahanna)

[Mitchell Landscapes]

May not be an ideal time to jump in but if you spend this fall and early spring getting yourself ready you may be ready to start then - There are a lot of folks that did not survive this latest down turn - mostly those who didn't know what they were doing or those with high fixed costs that could not down size fast enough to adapt. If the market continues to turn around there should be lots of opportunities around in the spring.

Good news is your are small and don't need a lot of jobs to keep your self busy. (and profitable) Most important thing (after you figure out how to do this stuff) is keep your costs down. Don't go out and buy a bunch of equipment (you can rent most of what you need when you are getting started).

As far as getting educated on this stuff - I would suggest that you start with something like ICPI certification - Its a national program, only costs a few hundred bucks for a three day class and you will learn much of what you need to start installing "dry set" pavers the right way. Sometimes John Deere Landscaping sponsors these classes or anyone in your area that sells Belgard Products should know about these classes. Then there are classed on Segmented Retaining Wall Systems - Both of theses programs are great and will have you installing patios and retaining walls in no time.

If you want to get some experience with Natural stone i would recommend the Dry Stone Conservancy out of Lexington KY - they offer workshops around the country and also offer a certification program in dry stone walling. The other resource for stone work is Mac MaCraven out of Charlottesville VA - He offers week long training workshops where you will get introduced to everything from building dry set retaining walls to using mortar to vineer with matural stone.

The other good thing to look into are Hardscape or Green industry trade shows. There are a number of them that come around every winter. If you want to get connected into the Nursery industry (Plants) - try you States NurseryMens Asociationn -they often have bi anual shows and quarterly learning events that you can attend.

That should be enough to get you started.

I left corporate america 8 years ago from a successful career as a Management Consultant for a big IT Company and started my landscape / hardscape company - best thing I have ever done. Have fun and good luck

[Mac]

I am not too familiar with the install companies in the Columbus area - sorry I cant make a recommendation for you. If it was maintenance, thats another story.

[Pelican]

My intent with my post is not to discourage you, but lay reality out for you, at least in my part of the Country. I will echo what Agla has said, at this point I'm actually considering a career move of my own, out of the landscaping business. I've been operating since 1996 and grew to where I was pretty comfortable financially, but 3 years ago began to notice a downturn in work. I started adjusting immediately and at present am struggling to stay afloat. Hardscaping was over 50% of my sales and much more profitable than my maintenance division, but it took a severe hit.

Last season I did just 2 hardscape jobs, I've yet to lay a brick this season. I've bid 3 or 4 jobs along the way, but was outbid by competitors that either are generating cashflow only or making large sacrifices in job quality. It is cut throat right now.

It was a lucrative and satisfying business for a good number of years, but presently I'm facing conditions tougher than my first season in business when no one knew me.

[GLAN]

Just a different look here......


This would be a great time.....Everyone is looking for a bargain....all are wanting the least cost for what they want........provided the outcome is decent and within acceptable standards.

You would be starting with the least expense.....you probably have some tools around the house........you'll be doing everything yourself.......Obviously you need work, get the word out there that you are in business, get some jobs under your belt. You'll have to charge cheap.....or at the least, the low er/est end of the average going rate.

Slow going at first....stick it out.....and the venture may pan out to be something OK.




Now........here's something that can happen

You just may make enough to move along. Or you won't......You just might do well.......if you do well.....There most likely will come a time when you see that rates have not gone up well or enough over time......Rates in decline, and your contemplating a change.

Many around me have in the last 2 years been thinking and talking about doing something else, branching into something else.....at what point to get out. What to do after.......what if they have to........Some don't want to discuss it, let alone think about it.......but.....in the back of their minds, they understand what others are thinking, saying.


This current recession has many in the industry strained. Far too many are are not filling their work schedules. Working less days, less hours.....Or laying off workers.

Where I am the design/installs have have languished this year and took a dive the last half of the year.

Maintenance is squeezed with a significanlty increased rate of competition and retreating prices.

This economic atmosphere is not going to go away anytime soon. Many factors are pointing towards it continue to get worse.



I understand a persons need to make a living........but......at what price?

[agla]

The point that I was trying to make is that all those guys getting laid off who have been laborers, foremen, and even project managers have no overhead either. But what they do have is a current perspective, a network of people who are familiar with them through their previous jobs, a working knowledge of suppliers, materials, installation, and are much more ready to hit the ground running. True - someone might have more business experience, but those others have a much easier time getting the work introduced to them (this business is much more about your customers finding you than the other way around) and they are often going to give those prospects more confidence in them than someone changing careers (whether that is known to them up front or not).

Eight years ago when Mitchell made the move it was hard to get landscapers to return your phone calls because there was more work than guys to do it (look on any garden website and do a search for "hiring a landscaper" and see what pops up prior to 2007). It is now flipped - there are tons of landscapers and very few people looking for them.

[glaciator]

I started my landscape company in 2008 after being layed off from a University position, but have 15 years in the horticulture and natural stone hardscape industry prior to going into academe/research. So, it was a no brainer for me to start up on my own. It has been tough, but I have built a base of clients and have been finding work most of the time. I have not hired yet, and it can be back breaking sometimes (I'm 44). But, there are rewards too. I made enough in 8 months to take the next 3 off. (Planning for next spring and finding business during that time off!). I hope to hire by March (2 guys or gals). We'll see. I have the advantage of being remembered by suppliers from 10 years ago, plus I've been landscaping my own properties along the way so I've kept in touch. My advice is get out and meet people (suppliers, other business owners, anyone in the community). I was so surprised at how others were willing to help me.

That's my 2 cents.