[Stonehenge]

Here's a pic of a set of steps we were working on today.

Who builds them using the pedestal method like this? I've found this to result in better long term steps for us.

[scott C]

I assume you will have 3 risers for the stairs. Really can't justify the cost around here. Definately the best / strongest way to build. We will usually bury just one block and build up. have done a few stairs with out a base block (won't do it that way any more) But its still standing stron.

Is that a future fire pit in the midddle?

[Stonehenge]

When I factored in the time involved in prepping a base three times (for this 3-step example), and the odds of having to come back and do a little repair work in a year, it seemed to come out a wash between the two as far as costs. With this method we get done faster, so this method won out.

You are correct, there is a small fire pit going in the middle. Fire brick at the base with retaining wall block around it.

[scott C]

Do you install a drain in the bottom of your fire pits?

[PSUscaper]

Hello,

I think we've discussed this before somewhere else........but I'll pretend that didn't happen.

I like the pedestal.............but.............have to say that the cost effectiveness is a big question.

For a small set such as though, only 3 steps, I believe I would do the same.

However, once you start getting above 4........well, then it seems to be a big economics question as you bury a LOT of block.

Also, the cost of the block being used is a deciding factor. Using versa lok a $6 something a foot is one thing........using techo at $11 a foot though makes this method become quite expensive.

Also, overall, how well do you find the level, stone dust base to work out for you. No matter what, I find you still have to go back and check all the blocks for slight variances.......especially on steps where the slightest boggle leads to a big disaster.

That's also why I'm slightly weary of the pedestal method......If you get one little flawed block down below.....all the steps are messed up above. Even with some of the higher quality block, I don't find that they make them with close enough tolerances to guarantee a even stack.

steve

[PSUscaper]

One more thing I noticed.........

In your pic, you seem to have 'filled' the bottom layers very tight with block.

I know in versa-lok spec sheets for the pedestall method, they suggest spacing the block apart that are 'base' blocks. They would have you turn the blocks 90 degrees to fill more space.

I mean, you gap them apart so that when you lay the next course of 'dummy' block, you just span across the gaps with the new block.

Do you prefer to just stack them tight all the time underneath? I did a 5 step pedestal once and spaced the block out more than you did. It seemed to have worked quite well. Just a pain, because when you fill all the voids in with stone, you always end up having loose material on the top of the block when you are laying the next course.

steve

[Paul]

I don't think I would do it on a wall like this, costs would be too high.

[PSUscaper]

Hey paul,

how long has that project been installed for?

(I'm notincing a little settlement of the pavers at the back of the wall in the first landing closest to us at the bottome of the pic)

Just wondering how many years this has been in, as I would consider a little bit of sinking there acceptable over a long time frame.

By the way........do you like the cobble stone paver? I really, really have become tired of them. They just seem very out dated anymore.....but it seems people still insist on them. For a commercial project like that, I think they still have a place....well, somewhat....lol......but am too the point where I dispise installing them on residentials.........and besides the look.......i hate all those little, tiny cuts you get when running around curves.

steve

[Stonehenge]

Scott C - nope. No drain. Do you normally install drains in yours?

Steve - it's funny that they seem tight to you - they seemed a little to spread apart for my tastes. I had been thinking about turning the buried courses the opposite way to make them tighter. But I'm looking for the same thing - a firm base for upper block to sit on, even if they span a short distance between block. In general we seem to have fewer callbacks and problems using this method. And for reference, I think these block were $2.50 each. Makes it much easier to justify the cost.

If there are 6 or more steps, we will typically break into even sections of steps, so we don't have a stack of 10 block under a top step. I think the Versa-Lok Tech Specs say to use the pedestal for up to 6 steps.

And yeah Paul, you'd have lots of buried block with something like that.

[Paul]

We installed the theater in 1997, the foreground brick was installed in 1995. The LA wanted us to keep the same pattern front to back, just change color. We don't use that unit any more, (real reason is that LA passed away) He like it for heavy traffic patterns. Plus it was like his signature, he use it on all his parks. The last theater we did for him was in spring of 2000. We did change a few things then. We added a holland border to the inside of the seating area.

The hard part of this type of install is compaction. We would really like to use a bigger compactor on it, but the walls won't stand using a 9000+ lb compactor that close to them. Most of the edge loss is from fines migrating thru the gaps between the SWR's. No matter how you try to fill between the units you can't get all the small gaps filled with fines. We have tried using a heavier fabric between the units and the SWR's but found over time it still stretches.

Lastly most LA's have stopped including them in their park designs, they feel the cost ($30K+) is too much to spend for this type of entertainment.

[scott C]

Stonehedge, the fire pits we have built have had a mortared fire bricks inside. (not sure if you are doing that). In which case we do install a drain. Nothing fancy generally a 4 inch pipe and a small gap between bricks with no mortar in the joints.

Paul nice theater looks like a real fun project to install.

[jwholden]

Steve,

When you use the pedistool method for steps with Techo do you build rows of block spaced a couple inches apart and filled with 3/4 process. It just seems wobbly and water retaining leading to ice pushing the block to me.

The last time I was at my supplier I was walking through his yard and found some 3" high solid cinder blocks. I thought this might be a cheaper way to build the pedistool, though I didn't get a price on the units.

[Stonehenge]

No mortar on those fire brick. Scott, did you use a special mortar for those fire brick? My mason tells me there's a special kind to use just for that, as the usual mortar mixes won't stand up to the heat.

[jwholden]

Jeff,

Don't all of your ads say 'uniformed' employees? Get's pretty darn cost prohibitive doesn't it.

I bought 10 pair of dickies four weeks ago and had a guy come in Friday and tell me they don't fit. I specifically had given the try them on before you take the labels off speech, FOUR weeks ago. Some of them were flannel lined , they are great in the cold weather. He was nice and told me I don't have to get replacements if its a problem.


I came very close to launching some hand tools after that one!

[Stonehenge]

Under each of their sweatshirts is a Stonehenge t-shirt, I swear!!

I never buy them their pants, but will reimburse them most of the cost - I don't want to become a clothing store. Trying to cut some costs, I stopped requiring tan pants this year.

I may change back next year, but in a modified form. It seems that most new guys crash and burn within 4 weeks. I'm thinking that I tell them to get the pants, and I'll provide the t-shirts after they've made it to the 4 week mark. Until then, wear whatever, so long as it's clean (in both senses of the word).

And I typically give out sweatshirts after 1 year service, as all of that stuff does get expensive. T-shirts, pants, safety gear, etc runs about $150 per new hire.