[PSUscaper]

Stone,

I have to say that I'm not sure I like those block at all.

They seem to be very, very open........not much surface area.

The less surface area, the more likely they are to 'push' into the base. I would imagine they sink in a little bit every time you put another course on.

Does this seem like a problem?

As for the price..........I guess you can live with that fact! That's one cheap block. The cheapest around here is grinnel brand (a diamond wall block), which are about $4 ea. Total junk though.......and I mean junk. They are the home depot block. out of a pallet, you'll get 10 of them that have up to a 1/4" difference in height. Makes you wonder sometimes if it really was the homeowner who built that crooked wall, or if it was the block?

JW---It's funny you mentioned the concrete block substitue idea. Recently, I was working on a set of steps and the customer insisted I substitue some 6 inch concrete building block in with the project because he thought they were 'close' enough (well, mainly the supplier who sold them to him thought they were......... Once I showed him what happens over 2 courses, he changed his mind. By the way.......the supplier also sold the poor guy ALL double sided ep henry block for a single sided wall......can you say 'sucker'.

The problem is that those 3 inch concrete blocks are probably a 'little tiny' bit off. Like a 1/8".

DO NOT Listen to your stone supplier. I can't tell you the number of 'bright ideas' they bring up that fly with the homeowner DIY'er, but NOT the landscape professional. I'm sorry, but though my suppliers are very, very helpful.........they still don't know a paver from a wall block when it comes to installation.

Also, most concrete blocks are very, very sloppy. When using mortar, as they are designed to be used with, little variations can be accounted for. Not the case with SRW's. Unless you have an exact, and I mean exact match in dimension, along with a block that is made to the same tolerances as the SRW block, I would not attempt it.

steve

[Stonehenge]

I haven't encountered a sinkage problem with them in any of the projects we've used them for. Probably because we don't use sand.

Anyway, these blocks are a hot seller among landscapers here because the mfg really does a great job making them - very tight tolerances, very little variability. But I still don't use them very often (much to the chagrin of one of our members here), because filling the voids is a pain in the neck, and to me anyway, the time involved in filling the voids and cleaning the block after each course just about negates the cost advantage.

Costs here are funny - this market seems to be extremely price sensitive (though it's been improving lately). So much so that even today there are some pavers and materials here that are less expensive than they were 15 years ago in the Detroit area.

Versa-Lok are around $4-5 per block, unless it's tumbled or Mosaic.

[PSUscaper]

Same here for the versa lok prices.

I still use a little stone dust to set my retaining walls, so that was where I see a concern with those blocks.

And yes....we all know you don't use sand!

[Stonehenge]

Lol...

I wish there were a few more material options here, like there are in other markets. Though I believe the mfg of those block pictured in this thread will soon be offering another retaining wall product. I'll leave it at that for now, because I think they wanted to keep that quiet for a little while. But I'm excited at the prospect.

And Techo Block has yet to be sighted in Wisconsin.

[Paul]

I guess I didn't look very closely at Jeff's picture. It appears to me the employee in the foreground doesn't have any protective foot wear!

[diginahole]

Pisa II doesn't lend itself very well to the pedestal method. The coping unit doesn't cover the back inch of the riser unit so to get the coping to butt against the step behind it the backs need to busted off the Pisa II's.

I only use the pedestal method occationally, usually for 2 steps right at the front door where compaction can only be done with the hand tamper. The method I prefer to use when compacting becomes a concern is to add some portland cement to the base material.

[Stonehenge]

Paul - Steel-toed boots are a requirement. He had been doing a good deal of block cutting that day, so I'm betting it's dust from cutting making his boots look white.

Either that or he's running around in stocking feet.

Though I do know of a company in my area where they wear sneakers, not boots.

[Stonehenge]

Here's a closeup of the boots:

[scl]

The toes are still intact! He can't work hard enough LOL!

There's a company in my town that makes a similar unit to those that Jeff is using, its called Stonewall. Totally cheap,$3 a block, totally JUNK, variances of up to 3/8". Looks like a roller coaster when you're done. Takes lots of pennies!!! They sell to homeowners and scrubs by the tons.

I've never pedestalled a step, but I could see where in an application like this it would work out well.

[Stonehenge]

Yeah, just like anything else, there are good block mfgs, and bad ones. There's a mfg of Versa-Lok in the area that has 1/4" variances from block to block, and sometimes from one side of a cap to the other. I've ended up going to the hardware store to purchase bulk washers (instead of pennies) whenever we're using that block (which is becoming less and less frequent).

And if you look very closely, you'll see the toe of his boot had one of those plastic toe protector things added to it, because the toe had a hole in it. I only know this because I gave him the toe protector and the glue to stick it to his boot.

[CountyMaterials]

Thank you Jeff for the nice words on our product. Without sounding like a salesman, our block are made, as Jeff said, with high standards.

The block pictured by Jeff are called County Block. (And yes, I just about fell of my chair when Jeff placed an order for my block! But I have hope that he will come around!!) The nice thing about them in regards to steps is that we make them the exact same height as an 8" concrete block. An 8" block is actually a nominal measurement which means it is really 7 5/8 to allow for the mortar joint. The County Block Gray retail for $2.62 and our colors (5 of them) retail for $3.28. Instead of burrying the the block for steps I offer to my contractors the 8" block to save a lot of money. A concrete block at $.95 or a $.57 cull block sure beats burrying good srw's. Also, at least for us since we manufactur County Block, Versa-Lok, Allan Block and a few others, we always have cull block. (Welcome to the world of concrete. ) I have one contractor who refuses to use the concrete block so I sell him cull County Block. (Those are generally not available, which is a good thing, but are things like bad split block or chipped corners. )

Penn - sorry that you had a bad experience with a nonexperienced salesman. I find it amazing that some of my competitors will employ people with no field experience. I don't claim to know everything, but the only reason I got this job was because of my field experience. I had no sales experience, but my product and application knowledge landed me the job. One of competitors told a DIY'er that for his 3' raised patio he only needed to fill it in with the clay that he just dug out. However unprofessional, I started laughing. Fill in 3' with clay? Lay pavers on screenings on top of that fresh clay!! WOW!! I politely told that he probably won't like my answer, but he needs to tear it down and start over now before it really becomes a mess.

As a side note, if any one needs some Versa-Lok to bury for steps, my competitor just made 6,000 pieces without the pin holes! (Same one that has the 1/4" variances that Jeff mentioned.) I am sure they are more than willing to part with them. Evidently the bar that makes the pin wholes fell out of the mold and noone noticed until contractor had some delievered to the job site and noticed that he couldn't tier up. I probably shouldn't make fun of that though, cause next thing you know, we'll have a problem.

Yes, Jeff, keep that new product thing quiet for now. Might cause a bit of a stir once 2 of our competitors realize that they have to buy this specific SRW from us!!! Can't wait for that.

[CountyMaterials]

Forgot to mention, if your supplier is also a manufacturer of the product, they almost always have culls or 2nd's or closeouts that they will sell at a discounted price. Use those to fill in the steps. Even if they don't manufacture, but are only a distributor, check it out. They might have customer returns that were a bad color, or chipped too much or whatever. Just so long as it doesn't compromise the structural integrity of the project.

[dan deutekom]

I very seldom do pedestals but when I do I will use block that has been leftover from previous jobs or the inevitable culled block from previous jobs. We never throw out any stone that is left over and even a lot of the 1/2 cuts and things we keep. At some point they always seem to come in handy.

I have also generally found that with the variance in the stone that I have encountered in our area I can build a better step on built up gravel.

[Stonehenge]

Progress Report

Here's an updated shot of this project.

(And County, to answer your question in advance, it's OGC. Sorry. )

[jwholden]

Did all that get done in one day?