[livingwaters]

Hey guys, I am doing a pathway and some stairs for a client. I ordered 7 tons of tumbled garden path stone hoping that would cover the below estimate. After about four change orders (after materials were on site) The plans changed to having a 12x12 patio, 5 stairs, 3oo sq ft of path and 120 sq ft of stepping stones( or fifteen 24 inch stones spaced 12 to 15 inches apart) When I got back to the site yesterday my guys had laid the patio, stepping stones and half the pathway. There wasn't enough stone left for the rest of the path. So I talked with my client and he agreed to get more stone. So I got 4 more tons delivered. This weekend I got an e-mail from my client, who said he took some mesurements and compared them to the estimate, and said I should have ordered the correct amount of stone according to what I said on the estimate. Anyway I do have a clause in my contract that states, estimating of natural stone can vary and client is responsible for extra costs due to under estimating of stone. I based my estimate on the normal '90 sq ft of coverage per ton'. Anyway, do you think I have the right to chatrge him for extra stone?

Stonehenge, don't you have an 'estimate' clause in your contract. I thought I saw your contract on an earlier post.
Hope Im not rambling.

Original Proposal:

Project description:

Entry stairs:
The front steps will be constructed out of RusticTumbled Garden Path stone. They will be dry-stacked on compacted drain rock with correct drainage. There will be nine steps. The steps will have a 7 inch rise and be approx. 5 ft wide at the first step, narrowing to 3.5 ft at the top. They will fan upwards from the driveway to meet the path. The stairs will be cased with Fieldstone boulders.

Retaining above stairs:
We will install a few fieldstone boulders to retain around the oak tree above the stairs. We will remove the existing retaining as needed.

Pathway:
At the top of the stairs, the Tumbled Garden stone will continue into a 3.5 ft wide pathway. The path will be approx. 215 ft long, from the stairs around the house and along the bocce court. At the front door the path will become more like stepping stones and continue like that all the way around the court. The path will be dry-laid on compacted road base and grouted with a mortar/ gold path fines mix.

Description Breakdown: Total:

Entry stairs: $5200
This includes, demolition of old stairs/ wall and installation
of new stairs and retaining around the stairs.

Retaining above stairs: $600

Pathway: $7900

Equipment:
--Bobcat 3 days $1100
--Mini-excavator 2 day $800



Total: $15,600

Questions, Issues and Options:
--Price could vary depending on choice of materials.

[jshilan]

As much as this seems like a difficult client already, the solution appears to be pretty staright forward. If you needed more material because the SF is larger as per the clients request then they pay. If the material just didn't cover the SF that you thought it would, then you pay.

As much as I give you credit for having this clause in your contract "estimating of natural stone can vary and client is responsible for extra costs due to under estimating of stone". I don't see how it is fair to the consumer. Tis far better to over estimate materials and cover yourself then try to squeeze out a project and ask the client for more money.

From the way this project is starting off, I would make sure all of your change orders are signed and that you keep the payments tight to the project. I would also evaluate why this situation is happening. Change orders are a part of the process, but four before you start, sounds like a client management problem. Either they did not understand the scope of the project, did not research the materials or have samples provided for them, or they're a little kooky.

In any event, honestly look at what is happening and try to determine why, so that you avoid a similar situation in the future. Also try to talk them into some plantings to raise your margins and have a more finished project when all is said and done.

Good luck with it and remember that lessons are very expensive in this business.

[Raj Venugopal]

You're not a charity. You are a business.

Don't subsidize his materials. He should buy his own stone. Estimates are just that, estimates. How much money are we talking about?

Eat the labour as a fair trade...that's your resp anyway.

[livingwaters]

Thanks for the responses, very insightful. The extra stone came out to $3000I think that I will try to give them some free labor time and extend the patio or something. But in this peoject I can't afford an extra 3k.

[Raj Venugopal]

Ouch. Well, you have to do what you have to do. Bill him for the stone, don't eat it.
If he welches on materials, lien his property, or sue if the client signed off on the contract which you note includes material estimation protections.
Put it in writing that your additional labour will be absorbed, but not materials.

[livingwaters]

So far we are still on good terms, not to the lien or sue road yet. Ithink once the project is done and they can see the quality of our work they might have a better understanding.
Although, it got pretty bad today when the lady of the house came out and said she had a sick feeling in her stomach all weekend and with tears in her eyes told me they might not get to take a summer family vacation.
Not sure if she was trying to play me or not but it did get my heart a little. Only cus I really do want to give my clients what they want, but, I have a family too.
p.s. my estimate clause does go both ways in my contract. If I over estimate stone or soils I would eat it.

[natural12]

How does 4 additional tons come to 3000 dollars? Around here a ton of stone is about 200 - 250. I guess the stepping stone treads would add up. Are you paying retail?

I would charge for the material but if things get difficult with the customer you could suggest splitting the cost only if you had quoted them a lower price after all the changes.

If you have to eat you could tell them you won't be going on a vacation. Goes both ways.

Mike

[jshilan]

Resorting to liens and lawsuits should be a last resort, not an inital response. Most people are actually reasonable if you sit down and talk to them honestly. Contrary to what most of us think, clients are not out to take advantage of contractors and vice versa. Problems typically occur when a clients expectations differ from the contractors. Much, but not all, of this can be resolved by providing a scale plan of the work to be provided, a properly worded contract, a line by line verbal presentation of the work to be performed, and some marker paint to lay things out on the ground.

Like much of the work we do, it is all subject to interpretation - by the client or the installer. No one likes problems, but they are a part of this business.

So talk to your clients, explain the situation, apologize for your errors and offer them solutions. You won't get everything you want, nor will they, but at least everyone gets something and no one gets "screwed" (sorry Stonehenge doesn't have any appropriate icons - which is probably a good thing).


Learn your lessons, add a new clause to your proposal, charge a little more and move on.