[martinjohn]

I want to apologize first if I came off rude. I am just sick of hearing about people trying to bid by the sqft or with some multiple system for plantings. I wish that everyone knew their true costs to run their company per day because that is what is important. Anyone can call a supplier or look into a catalog and figure the material costs as long as they can measure or do take-offs from a plan. Too many of us are leaving money on the table because we don't know our true costs of operation.

[natural12]

We did a stone driveway set in mortar that was 3600 sq. ft. I new it was going to be a challenge so I bid on the high side. If I get it great. If not oh well. We got the job mainly because I have a good relationship with the designer.
I would be very careful setting your grades and use a lot of string lines so you have no dips. Setting stone can get difficult when doing it on a large area.

Be prepared for a lot of cleanup after and during the job. Depending on the type of stone you will probably use over 40 tons.

I would probably sub out the concete slab work if you don't do that type of work much.

As for the price I think 63k is low. Our labor alone was higher than that.

Mike

[peteg]

Avg fixed expense per month 15,995.00
36.70 per man expense depending what size crews working. 48% profit on 2 man crew daily minimum 978.00.
I work 3, 2 man crews daily and will have 4 by end of June.
we have been doing stone work for our 3rd year and have a good rep for the quality. We have grown by 12-15 percent every year since 1998.
I started like alot of people with a lawn mower and toyota pick up.
I recieved help from friends in the business who were happy to see me do well. I do the same for anyone I can. I am going to get a hold on the bid process but still accept help from anywhere I can get it. Thank you all for your help.

[PSUscaper]

I can't say there was no ridcule. Been here a long time, and other sites before this. I guess I have seen SO MANY people ask silly questions anymore, that no, I don't have a 'nice' answer to give.

Sorry, but I'm not buying into this 'buddy, buddy' junk anymore. I'm not here to ridicule people, I'm here to learn. And there is nothing to learn from questions like this at this point.

As for being a teacher, that is EXACTLY what I am doing. I am HELPING the best way I know how. Instead of following the lead of others and sugar coating the situation, I'm straight and 2 the point. Flat out. From just the initial question, I gave the best answer. DON'T do the job.

I'm not going to argue the point either. Was I young, and not all knowing at one point. Absolutely. And did I go on the internet and get all kind of 'sweet' advice to make me feel good inside and go out and sign that job that I had NO reason to be doing. I sure did.

And do I look back now and say to myself 'what on earth was I thinking'. Yes. Do I wish that someone would of told me 'Dude, your way over your head on this one'.....Absolutely.

Perhaps this is part of the reason why I only check in a few times a week now. I hate to say it, but yah.......this place is starting to take the form of the others. And thats the way it goes.

Am I the only one left on the internet to tell someone the truth. Or does the internet now have to be politically correct also. Does this guy have a learning disability everyone else knows about but I don't. Is there a reason were giving him a pack on the back?

Bottom line. This guy could care less what we have to say anyway becasue he's going to do what he wants. Fine, let him. But let me say what I want, and don't rip me apart for being truthful to myself. Why are we even wasting our breath trying to teach him how to price a job. That's like trying to teach a baby how to drive a car. It just shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place.

And I don't expect everyone to get this point, and nor do I care.

[PSUscaper]

Interesting quote:

"In this area 25-30.00 sqft is normal"

In my area, its normal for guys to bid $10 a sq foot walkways and then wonder why they can't afford to pay for $4 dollar gas or afford health insurance for themselves. Guess I HAVE to use that as my guide though...gee, that sucks, I feel a cold coming on.

As for fancy numbers, they mean nothing. I can give you those too.

Here's a number I would like to here from everyone giving me justification to sq ft pricing.

Take the TOTAL number of hours you spend a year working. And I mean TOTAL, as in, in the field, in the office, on estimates, in the garage, in meetings, whatever. Take that number, and divide YOUR income by it. Not the company's. YOURS. What did YOU make per hour.

Does anyone have the balls.

I'll tell you my friends who had 45 guys at one point and did close to 3 million in work, and who, by the way, LOVED sq ft pricing............ $7.50 an hour. Guess what, I did 250k in work last year and guess what...............I beat him!!!!!! not by much though....LOL!

[Fine Edge]

PSU,
Nope, I don't get your point.
What I do get is this: You seem like one down in the dumps individual at this point.
What's with the negative attitude?

If he's been doing stone work for at least 3 years, he probably has a good idea how long it takes him to lay a certain size area. What he may need help with is determining how much extra clean-up, material handling, extra layout time, extra time to check and recheck his grade, etc.. it's going to take on a project that big.
All we can do is give him some guidance and let him decide if he wants to take the gamble on the job. We all have had a project where we say to ourselves " Boy, this is the biggest one we've ever had". And speaking from experience, I love the challenge of something new, something even bigger, something that requires another facet that I have not yet perfected.
It gives me a rush to try it and if I fail at part of it, well, I know what to do better next time.
So, PETEG, analyze your numbers very closely, get local help where you can and if you really feel confident, why not do it.

We all had to make that jump to the next level at some point.
Unless of course we want to wallow in our own sorrow and negativity.

[jshilan]

Originally Posted by PSUscaper

Hello,

The problem is, we want to get the irrigation and lawn in quickly this spring, so do we leave some slack in irrigation heads along the drive so they can be moved later on to run along the drive, or do we wait for the drive to be completed and then grade our lawn.

Just seeing how others would approach the situation.

Do you do drive/irrigation/lawn..........or irrigation/lawn/drive???

I'm a little uncertain what the best way to approach the matter is.
We want to try and do the drive very last as to keep equipment from rolling all over it, but we also want to get done as quick as possible so we can move on to other projects.

steve

Imagine if the responses to your earlier posts were met with the same disdain as you are presenting to others now? We all start somewhere and we all need help at one time or another. Someone may post a question that seems so obvious to you, but to them it is not. The thing that is so appealing about this site is that it is both supportive and educational in nature, unlike many other sites, landscape or otherwise.

I wish there were things like this when I was starting out so I didn't have to learn everything the hard way (of course, back then computers were the size of houses and there was no such thing as the internet). The great thing is that there is something like this now and I for one really enjoy giving and getting advice.

So explain your position on SF pricing, teach others what you know, and learn what you can.

[peteg]

This a Great site to get advice and give advice. I had a guy from Georgia email me. He is just starting out and wanted to know how I bid work. I gave him my experence and wished him well. I am taking that step into bigger stone contracts now and feel good about it.

[Fine Edge]

You HAVE to feel good about it, Pete or it isn't worth it to do it.
Post some pics of the flagstone job as it proceeds, if you get it.

Good luck.

[stoneguy]

I use sq. ft. pricing for mostly all of my paver jobs as long as there is reasonably good access to the site and they customer doesn't seem like they are going to be overly involved in the project :-)
Of course it makes it easier once you have done your costing on a few jobs first.
I find that most come out with roughly the same profit margin but sometimes you make a little less then sometimes you get a bit if a nice surprise at the end of the day.
Natural stone and wall building can be much different however.
I have a look at everything I can for costing then.
Good luck!
It sounds like kind of a rough one.