[Dmann]

Hello all,

Can everyone with experience... give me some insight on hiring good help and the direction to take with it. I am looking to build a fairly new business geared toward hardscaping, outdoor kitchens, pergolas etc.

Question is... I always seem to hire the lazy, drunk, druggies "I don't want to work" guys that want to start at the top and get paid more than the owner. I certainly do not mind paying a guy that is experienced - they are worth their weight in gold, but I never seem to find that right guy? Now, I do NOT advocate hiring illigals... but man some times you wonder what to do? Does anyone know the avenues on hiring LEGAL immigrants?

Whats your screening process?

Anyway, sorry for blowing off steam.

D.

[Fine Edge]

As an experienced landscape designer and builder, I have to ditto that question.
That's the exact reason I downsized and have opted to sub most things to other companies and only do the smaller projects ourselves.
For example, the last 2 reputable landscape companies we hired to aid in large planting jobs seemed to know what they were doing, recognized all the plant material, had the equipment, new how to properly set grade, etc...
On both jobs, I go back the next day to find my field dug West Coast Schip Laurels, Emerald Green Arborvitaes & 3 different kinds of Jap. Maples all planted with the burlap and twine still wrapped around the root balls.
Keep in mind that these were not spade dug trees in wire baskets, but hand dug shrubs in 10 - 15 gallon containers. Now my sub can pay his guys AGAIN to replant the shrubs properly.
That's the type of help I can expect to find around here without paying boat loads of money.

There's good workers out there it just takes a bit of time to find them, train them & then keep them.

[sandim]

Dmann,

Unfortunately there is no "secret recipe". Very long, most extremely unpleasant story short...I just fought for an hour in the rain with an ex-employee over filling out tax information. I almost decked him. He insisted he did not need to file tax information...whatever. If my husband wasn't there I'd probably have gotten arrested...and I truly always try to be the consummate professional. We just hired a brand new crew. One guy luckily with experience...but we'll see. Unfortunately it's just trial and error. My best advice is stuff you already know. Start out with a probationary period. We start out for the first 3 months with everyone as an independant contractor so to speak. We have them fill out the appropriate tax forms so it's all up front. After 3 months (nobody's lasted that long but it's only year 2 in our hiring process) we offer to bring them on as employees...benefits, workman's comp, social security .... all the fun stuff. If someone's good, I'll make it worth their while to stay.

Good Luck! Not to be discouraging...actually the opposite. This is a question posted here all the time. Go with your gut, expect idiots, be patient and maybe someone good will fall in your lap....we're hoping one just fell in ours!

[kinnanscaping]

I had a guy that called me over a month ago for a job. I have known him for a couple of years, and he wanted to be a landscaper, by golly. It seemed like it was going to be a great fit. I matched his pay with the opportunity to make more as we added responsibility to his job description. Well, he texted (yes, texted) me today "I have bad news" Of course, his old boss was offering him $9/hour more to come back and take on all new responsibilities.

First of all, the wording that he used in his text was supposed to illicit some sort of response from me, imo. It was as if he was setting me up to "feel bad" about the whole situation. Am I really not paying a good worker enough? Is he so valuable, that I have to increase his pay? What am I going to do if he leaves!?

The key is to not get emotionally involved. We can't take it personal. The bottom line is, everyone is replaceable. Some more easily than others, but even the good ones can be replaced.

My immediate response was two-fold: 1) Why is that bad news? If you can make $9/hour more, go for it! I flipped the whole scenario back onto his shoulders. 2) Why does your old boss suddenly feel like you are worth $20/hour when you were worth $11/hour two weeks ago? Of course, he had a couple of replies for that, like he has to get licensed, etc., but I told him that he should consider why his boss had the sudden change of heart. Again, I tried to make the bad news and decision-making all his.

[Dmann]

Thanks guys...

Pretty much what I expected to hear. I think I need to get more creative on my hiring approach...

Thanks for replies.

D.

[sandim]

I posted this same post a few months back and someone had responded that it's just luck and to be patient and they can sometimes fall right in your lap. I had gotten pretty discouraged esp. since my husband had to get in between myself and the last guy as we gave him his last paycheck. We both thought I'd kill him (and he weighed a good 100 pounds more than me!)
After round 2 of ads and nearly a grand dropped on those, we stumbled across a guy that had had his own business, but went bust due to the economy. Had since worked for another landscaping company as a landscaper and mechanic, but didn't get called back at all this year (not even a "sorry, no work" which I think sucks). We also got another guy with no experience but a good work ethic. Man, does he catch on quick.

Both employees seem ideal!! Granted they have just been with us one week, but in that week they show tremendous promise. I'm not going in with blinders, but my point is...just about when you give up, it can happen. I hope it did for us. Just keep hanging in there and eventually you'll come across someone right for your business.

[site]

I have had my own company for 12 years. I have 7 full time employees plus at least one temp. We pretty much always have more work than we can get done. My number one barrier to growth...finding good help. They don't even answer ad's unless it's for laborers, then it's alchoholics, morons, etc. I think you just need to go through people until you find a keeper. For me about one out of every five or six hires still works for me after a year. I'm picky about who I hire too- and still they mostly dont work out. My best advice is keep trying.

[MLysiak]

I am in about the same situation as SITE. I have also spoken with many local well established business owners who appear to have many good long term employees. When asked "how did you find them", The common answer was " Hire the masses- Fire their a$$es". Eventually you will find some good ones. I'm Still hiring & firing! This is a tough business to try to retain anyone worth a damn. Big revolving door, always will be like this. Best advise is to try to find a few who can work well and help with training new hires, pay fairly the ones that are working out well. Have good systems and policies in Place. I have three good employees, the rest are just laborers. The best source for good hires for me over the years has been to ask your current workers if the know anyone who wants to work.
Best of luck.

[johnkeegan]

Mostly a crap shoot but compared to most I've seemed to have better luck than most landscape contractors over my 20+ years in business. I've always had fairly small crews (2-4 men). I generally have one hardscaping crew/ one softscaping crew, in general. I've had numerous employees with 5-,6-, 8-, 10- and (currently) 13 years of tenure at my company. Even our "summer" college employees have returned for 3-4 years.

We do mostly residential design/build. Work mostly comes from referrals and return customers. Customers are always remarking on the "hard working, efficency etc." of our crews.

And my employees have always been American-born. Not that I have any problem with immigrant labor. I respect their work ethic. Just haven't gone there....yet.

...For what it's worth, here's a few things I've tried to do...

1-When you find a good employee, don't screw around. IMMEDIATELY, give substantial raises. Get them up to a respectable wage rate ($15-$20/hr.). Tell them you appreciate their effort, etc.
2-Quickly get rid of crappy employees and replace them. Listen to your key guys. If they think they suck...then they probably do.
3-We offer matching retirement (Simple IRA), health insurance (1/2 cost of single coverage), paid sick/personal/ vacation days. (Approx. 10 days-graduated- total for key employees). If you want a "professional" employee, give them the benefits a "professional" gets.
4-We RARELY work Saturdays. My guys average 40-45 hrs./ week. More overtime available but they'd prefer downtime. I don't blame them. I do to. I try to respect that they have their own lives.
5-I've always tried to have whatever equipment is necessary to make the job easier, from big to little.

...In general, show respect...show respect...show respect. Everything listed above is a sign of respect. Talk is important, of course, but it is just talk.

You'll still get your share of crappy employees but the good ones are out there. Just be sure that when you find your "needle-in-a-haystack," that you have a system (and mentality) in place to entice them to stay.

[GLAN]

the employee issue is like a revolving door....


As JohnKeegan said.....for the good ones....make it worth it for them to stick around. Respect goes a long, long way.


I recently went through employee changes........Driver that had been with me for 20 years and his son...was off and on for a while, then did a few years. Tried something else and then back with me a few years....Great guys....showed up every day.....did what ever was needed for the day........Just one problem.......Dumb as stumps.

The last couple years I had been questioning myself on how much longer I would keep the driver.......his work quality and ability was diminishing over time........and the "BS" was building.

I have now what I feel is a better employee now driving.

Had another guy that was with me 15+ years.......definite foreman material....great worker, attention to detail.............but...........he was stealing my equipment and tools for his own business.

I now have 1 guy left with me that has been with me 15+ years........great attention to detail.......on the slow side......Not much "BS" from him this year so far.

After have replacing a few guys.......I feel I have a more aggresive group working for me......we'll see.

All sorts of guys out there...........not easy finding the best, not easy paying for the best out of the gate.......I prefer guys that show potential.......not the kind of guys that seem full of themselves and that think they are great and can do no wrong.......unless ofcourse they are exceptional, have been taught correctly before I get them.

I know the help issue is not easy to deal with.......some times I feel I am opperating a nursery school.........All things considered.........work with what/who you have, things work out....Great!..........they don't.......next guy/gal

[Timber Lane]

I've had about 16 different employees on my two or three man crew since 2001. It's been hit or miss.

The misses: Three ended up carted off to jail, not to be seen again for a year or two (I didn't rehire them). Two were great workers for a while, but they eventually got pretty cocky and thought they were irreplaceable (They were wrong). A couple (maybe a half dozen) were dumb as rocks and couldn't follow simple directions, but I kept them one full season as grunts.

The hits: I've had a few guys that were excellent workers. On time, don't complain or call in sick. And they actually look for work to do after completing a task, instead of just standing around.

Right now, I have two employees. One is the best I've had, the other is right up there. They make work a pleasure, especially when I think back to some of the nightmares I've had working for me.