[tfld]

I've got a side design project for a group with a relatively small budget and a relatively small, but interesting space. They have a budget of about $3K for a privacy fence (@$100-120') between two fairly compact lots in a semi-urban area. They did some homework and were apparently quoted at about $3,000 for 120' of standard cedar privacy fence, but they'd like to do something more creative for the money. My question is: Does anyone out there have a good resource for fence design ideas? Suggested alternative materials/designs?

My goal is to spec a custom fence possibly integrating climbing plant material at or lower than the proposed cost of the cedar alternative.

Thanks for the help!

-n

[agla]

Think about what you are saying that you want to do.

So, they are telling you that they want a lot more without paying more. In addition to that, you are already putting additional effort and time in trying to figure out how to do that. You don't usually do fences, so it is unlikely that you can do it as efficiently as someone who does and also has specialized equipment to do it, yet you expect that you will produce more for less.

Is there the assumption that the fence guys are way over priced, so that there is plenty of extra money in this project to do custom work and add plants? Or is there a hope that there are cheaper materials that will make the difference? Or are you going to be more efficient at the installation freeing up more money? The only other place to free up the money is in the profit column.

Are you going to work extra hard to out fox this job so that people who want more for less can get that? If you can produce more for less, it should go into your profit column rather than to donate it to people who want what they are unwilling to pay for.

The alternative is to show them what they can have and give them the true price for doing it and see if that is enough to get them to come up with the additional money. That makes sense, but working hard to give others what they don't value does not.

[Stonehenge]

I'm feeling the same way as Agla - they got a price for standard, plain-jane project, but now think they can get something cool and custom for that same amount? Unless there are large spaces in the fence where you're using something cheap like buckthorn, it doesn't seem like anything custom is going to be an option. And moreover, that you should spend a lot of effort trying to do something custom. The budget is $3k. How much design effort should go into a $3k project? If this is a freebie design for some friends that's one thing, but if you want to make mortgage payments from your work, that's quite another.

[tfld]

I'm in college still and I'm a design student, so the little bit of abuse is acceptable. Personally, I think 3k sounds a little steep for a pos fencwe they'll come and whip out in half a day, but then again theres the old fence demo and haul so..

What I sort of had in mind was 6" posts with concrete wire mesh panels and an evergreen vine...It's really not that hard to do a little extra thinking. The total prject budget is probably 8-10k, still not much, but the goal for me is to spec a couple of cool, simple things like concrete with embedded ag or glass and get them built for my portfolio. I ecpect to make very very little money from this.

[Fine Edge]

That price for cedar isn't too high.
Why don't you let them do cedar panels with a framed lattice top section.
Leave 10' or so between the panels and install some easy screening plants.
Or have them price out other materials besides cedar. Privacy fence ( 6' ) around here for pressure treated is between $17 - $20 linear foot.

I agree with the other quotes, however. How much time can you actually spend on a design for part of a project that is only $3000 or so?

[papercutter]

Hey, I can't argue with the idea of what you're trying to do. More than once, I've put more time into a design than I really should have if I feel it has the potential to be something really unique for my portfolio. Two cautions about that, though. First, know that if it's a truly out-of-the-ordinary idea, there's a good chance the client won't adopt it. I don't care how avant-garde they want to think they are, if you really push the envelope they're going to go "oh. Damn. Um, wow. Hm. Maybe not THAT unusual." Second, think about the long-term maintenance of what you're creating as well as the ease of execution within the budget. When you say group, if you mean non-profit group, that could be critical. I've done some pretty neat pro bono designs for non-profits that may get built... someday. On the surface, your screen sounds simple to construct and maintain, but think about the materials, how wire mesh panels tend to behave, and your attachments. The cedar fence sounds like it's priced right, and because it's made up of individual boards any damage or deterioration is a snap to address. If your alternative is going to function like a system, or even big panels, consider that.

What Fine Edge suggested is along the lines of what I was thinking. Could be a great way to introduce some mixed materials and finishes.

[tfld]

How does it cost less to do a lattice pattern rather than typical panels? I guess it would make sense if you're only dealing with easily installed prefabricated lattice panels, posts, and cross members. I guess the only difference in that would be that I would prefer to use steel mesh rather than a home depot lattice look, just a stylistic opinion.

Also, let me clarify, this would be beneficial to my "design portfolio" for inclusion in the "built works" section rather than a portfolio of solely built work.

hmmm...alot to think about, keep the thoughts coming..

[schleng]

Along the lines of Fine Edge's thinking, how about using the more inexpensive pressure treated fencing. At $20/lf, that's $2400. Then add vines, shrubs and or perennials in front so that the beauty is in the plantings, not the fence. Some of the shrubs could be large and inexpensive, such as Forsythia.

This way you would provide privacy and a nice garden area. To do a nice planting design, you would be over the $3000 budget, but if designed creatively, not by a tremendous amount.

If you got them excited about it, they might come up with some more money. Or you could suggest that the plantings could be done over time.

Susan

[papercutter]

Originally Posted by tfld

How does it cost less to do a lattice pattern rather than typical panels? I guess it would make sense if you're only dealing with easily installed prefabricated lattice panels, posts, and cross members. I guess the only difference in that would be that I would prefer to use steel mesh rather than a home depot lattice look, just a stylistic opinion.

Well, if you were to take the concept of individual free-standing panels broken up with plantings in between, it might be a wash by the time you increase labor over a board fence, but decrease materials and the number of postholes. "Lattice" can be much more than home depot lattice sheets; if I'm designing a privacy screen, I'll construct the lattice from cedar 1x1s or 2x2s, spaced anywhere from 4" to 10" on center. Add in some plantings, especially climbers, and what's behind will disappear.

So you clearly have some variables here- who's building the fence (or its equivalent), what are they capable of doing well, and how expensive is their labor?

I'm digging your idea with the steel mesh, I'm just not sold on the concrete mesh as the way to get there. I can see the big roll of rust I've got stashed behind my shed from here, and I'm not feeling it. Are you thinking of just unrolling it and attaching it across a bunch of posts, or creating individual panels between the 6x6s?

[Hamons]

This site has some really cool fence ideas. rosenlof/lucas landscape design + installation - home

[tfld]

Originally Posted by schleng

Along the lines of Fine Edge's thinking, how about using the more inexpensive pressure treated fencing. At $20/lf, that's $2400. Then add vines, shrubs and or perennials in front so that the beauty is in the plantings, not the fence. Some of the shrubs could be large and inexpensive, such as Forsythia.

This way you would provide privacy and a nice garden area. To do a nice planting design, you would be over the $3000 budget, but if designed creatively, not by a tremendous amount.

If you got them excited about it, they might come up with some more money. Or you could suggest that the plantings could be done over time.

Susan

Thanks. Just to clarify further, they have more like a 10k overall budget, but we're trying to do the fence for under 3k so they can spend more where it may be more useful/attractive, whatever.

Susan, I know I didnt make this clear, but the site, which is tiny is nearly an alley between two multi family buildings...think more along the lines of urban alley/ street/plaza treatment. There is almost no space to do much if any planting. Any planting would be probably potted or in very very small garden spaces. Most of this project will be paved, probably concrete...but thats another topic.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by papercutter

Well, if you were to take the concept of individual free-standing panels broken up with plantings in between, it might be a wash by the time you increase labor over a board fence, but decrease materials and the number of postholes. "Lattice" can be much more than home depot lattice sheets; if I'm designing a privacy screen, I'll construct the lattice from cedar 1x1s or 2x2s, spaced anywhere from 4" to 10" on center. Add in some plantings, especially climbers, and what's behind will disappear.

So you clearly have some variables here- who's building the fence (or its equivalent), what are they capable of doing well, and how expensive is their labor?

I'm digging your idea with the steel mesh, I'm just not sold on the concrete mesh as the way to get there. I can see the big roll of rust I've got stashed behind my shed from here, and I'm not feeling it. Are you thinking of just unrolling it and attaching it across a bunch of posts, or creating individual panels between the 6x6s?

I actually had in mind the larger gage stuff which I think may be sold in panels. I was only really thinking this because I had explored this idea a few years ago when I worked for a design-build. The problem I thought of then is along the lines of your comment on the rusting, except I was thinking more about the rust staining the wood, which wouldnt be pretty. I like where this conversation is going though.

[tfld]

Originally Posted by Hamons

This site has some really cool fence ideas. rosenlof/lucas landscape design + installation - home

Yes! This is exactly the flavor I'm looking for, some variation on one these styles. Corrugated steel always says high design, now to find some reliable pricing. This is getting good, let's keep this conversation going..Thanks for those images!

[LandArts]

If the fence is needed to keep pets or kids in that's one thing but if it's just for privacy I say skip the fence altogether and do the screening with plants. Most fences need to be softened with planting anyway. If space is limited a fence may be the best way to go. I'd try to come up with something rot-free, not using wood except for larger posts (not 4x4).

[tfld]

Originally Posted by LandArts

If the fence is needed to keep pets or kids in that's one thing but if it's just for privacy I say skip the fence altogether and do the screening with plants. Most fences need to be softened with planting anyway. If space is limited a fence may be the best way to go. I'd try to come up with something rot-free, not using wood except for larger posts (not 4x4).

Theres no space really for planting.