[jwholden]

I have heard talk of Masons around GTX and we all seem to hold them in very high regard. However, what makes a good Mason? There are plenty of Mason's around me just like there are plenty of Landscape Contractors. However, the number of reputable landscape contractors is a much smaller number and this must hold true with Masons as well.

How can you tell who actually knows 'Masonry' and who is a fly by night looking for a quick buck. I usally take a look at their work and judge if they know what they are doing, though I'm sure there are many times when this would not be enough of a test.

I do not want to be predjudiced but most good Masons by me are Portugese or Italian, and learned everything they know through trial and error on the jobsite, not in 'mason school'. I would be suspect if someone showed up on my doorstep with a Bachelors in Masonry with a minor in Brick Paving.

Is a mason someone who does any work which involves mixing portland cement to make concrete to hold two stone or stonelike products together? Are there different specialties of masonry; such as stone walls and belgian block, brick, concrete and stamped concrete , block and brick walls, etc.

Just thought I'd throw that one out there.

[Stonehenge]

It's funny you ask that.

I think masons hold themselves in pretty high regard as well. But it's been funny watching my experienced mason really be at odds with not having a mud joint to make up for any flaws in installation. When it comes to dry laid hardscapes, it's perfect, or it's not.

In fact, I've had to take time with everyone and define what 'level' means when reading a level. Seems simple, right? Not at all. Most everyone comes on board thinking that if the bubble is within the two side bars, it's level. I have to teach them that level means the bubble is perfectly centered between the two bars.

But back to the question of masons. Even the ones on the jobsites we're working on, who were friendly enough and helpful and knowledgeable, we found some big time flaws in their work. I posted a pic in the 'Client Wants Mortar, PII' thread, where their pavers in a basket weave pattern are going around an open ring for a tree. At the top end of that circle, the bond lines are so crooked (relative to the rest of the pattern), that below the circle there are 15 rows of basket weave, with rows 1 and 15 connecting at the top of the circle. Only problem is, there are only 14 rows of basket weave up top.

Another thing that frustrates me about masons - if you have about $200 in tools, you can be a mason. It would be safe to say that I have 6 figures in tools, and I barely feel like a landscaper.

I think some of the mystique of the mason is the tie to times past, with tricks of the trade passed through generations of workers. Like a fraternity of sorts.

[Stonehenge]

But even now, just after typing that, I recall being intrigued and having respect for the difference in method and approach. So much more is put into planning the work before doing it, because you have very little time for adjustments once mortar starts flying. A string was run for every single course of running bond, because mortar joints can get wild on you fast. Drove me nuts, but when I see what we produced compared to our experienced neighbors, I was happy we took more time.

[Lanelle]

You can see a difference in work quality and many of the good stone masons by me are Portugese. Tonight I looked at a mortared brick walk that a client had put in by some unknown. It was a simple L-shaped walk with running bond. When I looked at the bond lines, they were all over the place. The mortar joints also varied in width a bit. Don't know what they paid..........

[agla]

Every trade has its diversity of skill level. Different people see or don't see different things.

To some level and plum can be a bit the most important or a bit wishy washy, to others it might be the look of the mud joint, the organization (lack of better term) of the stones in the wall face, the precision or flow of the layout, the proper elevations of the footing and top, the aesthetics of design, ....

Some do all of them well, but most only do some of them well. The trick to it is to know what you can control and to hire the people that can do those things that you can't. A masonry crew can have several guys all building beautiful walls, but as individuals none of them could get the same results. The layout person might not do well with stone placement or the best joiner will have no concept of a good looking curve or what heights would be best, ....

No different than carpentry or landscaping.

[dan deutekom]

My young son has decided that he wants to become a Restoration Mason. He has worked the last few years doing lock stone (and I have to admit he is pretty good at it) and it has changed his mind from heavy equipment mechanic to stone mason.In researching the trade it seems there are brick masons, stone masons and restoration masons. The restoration and stone masons seem to me to be the most skilled in that they must cut stone and match joints perfectly. They use undressed stone or marble etc and really are building works of art out of raw material. It is really hard to find this type of mason and it can take years of hard work to develop the required skills. It also can be very lucrative. The demand for this type of skilled person is very high with very few young people entering this field.

[Stonehenge]

How old is your young son, if you don't mind my asking?

Whenever I get a chance I always watch a show on HGTV or Discovery or one of those called "Modern Masters" - it's a show about people who are masters at arts that seem to be fading, like blacksmiths, glass blowers, stone masons, carpenters, stuff like that. I get great satisfaction just knowing that somewhere these arts are being maintained by people with a love for them. And I hope they are highly paid for their work, because it is truly a wonder.

Best of luck to your son.

[dan deutekom]

The Kid is 19. Just graduated from High School this year. Worked with me last year part time and is now working with Diggin full time and me part time. Loves working with stone. I suggested that he looked into stone mason because it was a dieing trade with a large demand for skilled ones. Also it goes all year long unlike landscape work. He is still young and may change his mind but I think he has set his goals. The research we have done seems to give a salary of 64,000.00+ after completing apprenticeship.

[Stonehenge]

Hey - something to consider - I don't recall the name, but there is a newly formed school or curriculum in the US that trains people in stonework. It's not a quickie class, it's more like a college. I believe it's a 2 year program, with loads of on-the-job training. Darn, I wish I could remember the name. I think the state of Kentucky was one of the sponsors of this program.

If I can find more info I'll post it.

[bricknblock]

Stonehenge
did you find the school or more info on this yet? sounds like something I'd like to check more into

[Stonehenge]

Nope. One of a million things that got put on the back burner. You might want to run a few google searches on it, though. If it's still going (this thread is a few years old), it oughta be findable.

[bricknblock]

yeah, know it's old...was digging through threads and it caught my eye...will check out google

[Lanelle]

I haven't found the article about that school but I'll keep looking. Meanwhile I found this:

http://www.stonefoundation.org/index.html

Check out the link to their meeting on the Hood River -- cool pics!

[Lanelle]

I think that this is the place I read about a few years ago:

http://www.drystone.org/mission/

[KWSgroup]

What about us Irish boys! around the Philly area most masons are Irish or Italian. Like you guys said there is a differance between stone and brick. Brick you lay out and stay on bond with stone you have to look ahead and hammer and chisel everything to fit no preset size. Several of my uncles are masons and I learned from them both Italian and Irish some right off the boat. hands on jobsite is the way to learn the art of hand cut stone work. I spend may summers dressing stone one after another. Listen and watch the older guys will take the time to show you how it's been done for hundreds of years.