[steve lester]

Ya what ever, i'm stating a nother option, for weather condition in this area, we get any where from 25 to 48 freeze thaw cycles here so when the jointing sand freezes it pushes every time. we pour all stoop and or any concrete that is 21/2 feet from the foundation edge drill 3/4" holes in foundation install rebar and hydrolic cement to hold that, than we drill holes on the outter edge of the structure 3' to 4' deep and pour concrete so it dosent move. the polysand for the joints is better the no ploysand for keep moisture out and we use portland on the outter edge only. doing it that way cut my repairs down by 98% then when we did it with cinder bricks or retaining blocks. yes it costs alot more but sending guys out there every other year is more expensive for me then the other way and the customer pays for the concrete way or i don't do the job.

i agree with doing it your way but i don't think you get the extreme freeze thaw cycle that we do.

[AZTLANLC]

Originally posted by steve lester
we drill holes on the outter edge of the structure 3' to 4' deep and pour concrete so it dosent move.

I can assure you that it will move maybe wont settle but it will move, unless the whole structure is floating on air and no soil underneath.
and hopefully those footing that you drill are not attached to the pad.
One more thing even using polymeric sand you'll get moist underneath

[steve lester]

what ever the house move the pad moves. yes the footings are attached to the pad we pour it all together. since we switch to that method and doing it for almost 5 years now and installing over 300 stoops per year we have only 1-2 stoop that need a little something to them, and that usually only take 1 guy 15 min. to adjust.

i do agree with your comment on moisture underneath the pavers. but it is extremely less that only sand and there is no wash out ether.

[PSUscaper]

If your installing 300 stoops a year I am not going to argue any point you have to make. In fact, I am all ears.

I think the fact that you are pouring a concrete footer under your projects makes the argument I have invalid, as it is not moving then. I believe most guys here are assuming a compacted stone base here. I've been switching myself and have been installing concrete pads with footers for many of my stoop/stair projects lately. I feel much better that way.

How many crews do you have to get 300 stoops a year in? Are you working all year long? Being in the midwest, I'd imagine you have to shut down at some point, so I just have to know what a company looks like that is doing that sort of volume. That is very impressive.

[steve lester]

we run 7 crew in the heat of the year and almost every job has a stoop of some sort in it, we run from march to dec. as long as the weather holds out of course. not all crews do pavers all the time. some do repair work (not all mine) there are a TON of peaple doing pavers up here that have not clue on what there doing. and pay not goverenmental fees, well that's a whole different topic for later.