[bcx400]

after reading a response from dan deutekom about unilock walls needing pennies for shims, I just had to bring this to the top...

We use EP Henry products here is SE PA, and while we don't build a lot of walls, we are currently in the middle of a project around a pool where we are building about 120 LF of seat-high walls.

The EP Henry double-faced Coventry wall (3" thickness) is about 80% consistent. The other 20% is about 1/8" thicker. What a PIA to layer the wall and have to shim with pennies! Anyone else in the area having a problem with EP Henry or other manufacturers?

[Matt Kulp]

I install a lot of E.P. Coventry and it is a common problem as of late. The manufacturer is allowed an 1/8" tolerance, but when it is off by the full allowance it can really screw up a wall. It is especially bad with using the combination pattern. I would first call your E.P. Rep., if you don't know who they are, PM me your contact info and I can put you in touch with the right person. Have them come to your site and show them what you are working with. They may not be able to do much if the block is within tolerance, but at least they will know that the product's quality is slipping. Other then that, the only thing you can do is either start shimming or get out the cup grinder.

I have seen the problem with every manufacturer that we have used. Some are just worse then others.

[Stonehenge]

It does seem like a problem that is getting more pervasive across many manufacturers. Like Matt said, get one block that's +1/8" and the next is -1/8" and you have a 1/4" difference. Pretty hard to make that come out right.

To help that, we don't use pennies, as it's too expensive. We opt instead for bags of washers, and try to keep them handy on every wall project we have.

[Pelican]

I use the metal banding the blocks are strapped with. I fold it over on itself and tap it with the hammer to make it tight, I can make it as thick or thin as I need. The only time I really need to shim with Unilock is on the corners. I haven't used the brand mentioned here.

[dan deutekom]

We use pennies because washers cost us about 3 cents each plus washers rust unless we get the 5 cent ones that are galvanized

[4seasons]

Dan I wanted to make a comment like that!!!!

[Uni Bob]

I guess I should contribute here. I feel like I have been a blabermouth since joining.

The multiple shape walls tend to be the most complicated to manufacture. It doesn't matter what brand. I am not in the plant on a regular basis, but whenever we have/have had an issue I try to research it as best as possible. Depending on the wall, the shapes can come from different pallets or layers. In the tumbling process several pallets of product all get mixed together. This means that if you get a pallet or two that go unnoticed that can quickly turn into 5-10 pallets that have problems. Again we do our best to find this and correct it quickly, but the QC folks drink a lot of Mountain Dew.(that is a joke of course)

I would also like to say that ya'll do it to yourself in some ways. The more crazy stuff you do with these wall systems the more critical it is to be on for every dimension. You are flipping and rotating walls units all over the place. There are spindle seatwalls and massive fireplace structures. These types of project require very tight dimensions on all sides.

Most of the multiple shaped walls run 9 or 10 inches deep so they aren't really meant to go to the height some guys build them either. A small height issue 1/32" for example gets to be an issue on a 6' tall wall(do not build a wall past the manufacturers recommendations without specific consent from that manufacturer).

None of this is intended to be an excuse or dodge. If you have a height issue, talk to your manufacturer and they should do everything to make it right!


Whew..ok quit making me have to be salesmanish!!

Unibob

--The content of this message is opinion or observation and should not be confused with company policy or fact(unless specifically noted). It is simply the opinion of a product Rep.

[Pelican]

Originally posted by Uni Bob
I would also like to say that ya'll do it to yourself in some ways. The more crazy stuff you do with these wall systems the more critical it is to be on for every dimension. You are flipping and rotating walls units all over the place. There are spindle seatwalls and massive fireplace structures. These types of project require very tight dimensions on all sides.

When our customers see these things in your catalog or brochure, what are we to do? My biggest peeve is the photos with pavers right to a pool's edge, here where we deal with frost heaves it's nearly impossible to do a job like that and be able to guarantee it for any length of time. I stay away from those jobs for that reason.

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by Uni Bob


Most of the multiple shaped walls run 9 or 10 inches deep so they aren't really meant to go to the height some guys build them either. A small height issue 1/32" for example gets to be an issue on a 6' tall wall(do not build a wall past the manufacturers recommendations without specific consent from that manufacturer).

None of this is intended to be an excuse or dodge. If you have a height issue, talk to your manufacturer and they should do everything to make it right!

Ohh Come on Bob

If a Pisa II corner is 1/4" thinner than the regular Pisa II blocks making up 1 1/2" in a 3 foot wall is excessive. If you are telling me that I am overbuilding at that height. And I am not doing anything fancy. Just a wall with a corner. One of our walls was featured in your catalog many years back. It was Pisa II and over 12' tall (engineered) but I tell you that it cost me about $10.00 in pennies. I get the same sort of problems with cap. I see as much as a 1/4" of variation from one end to the other. Some years are better than others and I have learned to compensate and live with it.

Bob don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining and it is my fault for not wearing rubber boots, just say what our old rep used to tell us. "It's the plight of the industry"

In this day and age with millimeter tolerances on everything from lumber to toilet paper the concrete block manufacturers should be able to make a consistent product.

I still like Unilock and think it is one of the best but you did sound like the salesman

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by dan deutekom
Ohh Come on Bob

If a Pisa II corner is 1/4" thinner than the regular Pisa II blocks making up 1 1/2" in a 3 foot wall is excessive. If you are telling me that I am overbuilding at that height. And I am not doing anything fancy. Just a wall with a corner. One of our walls was featured in your catalog many years back. It was Pisa II and over 12' tall (engineered) but I tell you that it cost me about $10.00 in pennies. I get the same sort of problems with cap. I see as much as a 1/4" of variation from one end to the other. Some years are better than others and I have learned to compensate and live with it.

Bob don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining and it is my fault for not wearing rubber boots, just say what our old rep used to tell us. "It's the plight of the industry"

In this day and age with millimeter tolerances on everything from lumber to toilet paper the concrete block manufacturers should be able to make a consistent product.

I still like Unilock and think it is one of the best but you did sound like the salesman

Well said Dan!

I have never asked anyone to pay for my companies screw ups, why is it that we are asked to sell someone else's?

[VoodooChile]

Not to rip on Unilock, but we had a batch of Olde Greenwich Cobble this summer from the Elkhorn WI plant where the square units were about 1/4" thinner than the others-- twinkie, std, xl-- which added a real nice "texture" to the paths...

[ianc]

how Come when Risi made the walls there was no problem - then after unilock purchased them it became a quality problem

Yes - I am from Canada - and have seen first hand unilock quality issues for a long time in Georgetown, long before you moved into the US market

[albert]

just finished coventy walls 3 &6 " e.p. henry ,had to purchase a 9"cup grinder to level out the wall , I think their quality is going down fast and they better start to correct things.

[Uni Bob]

Need to clarify a couple of points:

Pisa2 and/or Roman Pisa are not considered multiple shaped walls nor was I addressing that issue with that post.

I have never known Pisa2 or Roman Pisa that had been made by Risa as opposed to Unilock, so I just don't know that answer. I get the same response from the plant that you do when asking about Pisa Corner height "we are doing the best we can and have made improvements".

I was referring to multiple shaped walls such as Old Quarry or Estate Stone. This also translates into Celtic wall, Country Manner, Vintage, and any other number of multiples shaped walls on the market.

With regard to the Old Greenwich Cobble...please call either Bryan or I depending on where you business is if you EVER have a height issue. In the case you stated we would have replaced the pavers as fast as possible without cost to yourself.

Now I agree that the catalogs out there force you to do strange and wonderful things with product. It has also been ironic that we list allowable heights in the product data that are clearly overbuilt in some pictures(please speak with your manufacturer for clearance on extending the allowable heights of product). I mentioned that pretty much jokingly (I am allowed to joke some here right?) and it wasn't intended to make everyone mad.

The best part of my job is being able to go and see all the crazy and beautifuler stuff I would have never thought of..and yes take pictures of it so everyone out there needs to try it out when they get that picky homeowner that has seen it in next years brochure.

I don't mean to get everyones blood boiling..I do like to joke around a bit, but I also just wanted folks to get some small insight as to the manufacturer point of view.

Again, I know all manufacturers, territories and facilities make different quality of products. I can only speak of what I know and how I do things. This is also why I put the "disclaimer" on my messages.

Uni Bob

--The content of this message is opinion or observation and should not be confused with company policy or fact(unless specifically noted). It is simply the opinion of a product Rep.

[johnkeegan]

Those plastic "EZ Shims" work great. Slide them in to get the exact tapered tolerance and snap them off.