[Hank]

We are about to start our first clay paver patio & walkway. We have laid a bunch of concrete pavers. How do they compare? Is there anything we should be more cautious about? Are they as durable as concrete? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[PaverDrew]

A few things to consider.....
1. Diamond blades.... Check with your blade dealer and purchase a blade for the hardness of the pavers. After burning up a new blade, I discovered that the composite is different for the two materials. It may not matter much if you use cheap blades, but it was worth purchasing paver specific blades for us.
2. Concrete pavers are very consistent in their uniformity. Brick pavers come in differing ratings, such as PS- for mortared applications (may be far from uniform in sizing) to PA- mortared or nonmortared applications ( may be far from uniform to meet architechural design) and PX- for uniform nonmortared applications ( the closest in demensional tolerances you will find). PX will give you the least overall problems, making straight lines easier to maintain, etc. You can use the other ratings as well, but alignment may require more labor and a closer eye for detail.
3. PSI is much higher on average with clay pavers, according to the BIA. Clay pavers average something like 11,000 or 14,500 psi, if I recall correctly from the seminar I attended. I do believe that the clay pavers are more susceptible to chipping during compaction if debris is present on the surface. Otherwise, the installation should be as easy as a concrete paver install.

Check out www.gobrick.com for more info.

Drew

[AZTLANLC]

Try to install them in just running bond pattern, cause most clay pavers around my area inconsisten in size.
Use a pad between the pavers and the plate compactor for final compaction.
Buy about 3-5% more than what you actually figure.
I have not found good quality clay pavers around my area, I sure doubt if they have a psi of 11,000 like the ones drew gets around his area.
You can actually pour watter on them and watch how they take it like a sponge that must be the reason all this places that I see they use them after couple years start breaking apart.

[Stonehenge]

Sounds like some really cheap clay pavers, Aztlanlc. You get some extruded pavers like some of the offerings from Glen-Gery or Yankee Hill and they will absolutely eat diamond blades. As Paver Drew suggested, get the right blade for the right application. In general, the harder the material you're cutting, the softer the matrix should be that holds the diamonds in place in each segment.

[AZTLANLC]

I have not found anything good in my area, I really like clay pavers for some applications where customers want that old look but no matter where I buy them the quality isn't there must be cause they are not used as much as some other parts of the country.

[N. Solutions]

I love using clay, primarily for the stong, lasting color they have. All the above ponints are right on. I use Whitacre-Greer 8X8's and struggle b/c of their inconsisitent sizing, the nature of a clay because of the shrinking that occurs during firing. Generally, an order of all the same color and size is going to be pretty consistent (both in color and size), the real trouble arises when you're mixing colors because they're from different batches of clay. I know I'll have some wiggle room and plan accordingly when I lay them. The best thing to do to limit the noticeablitly of this inconsistency is lay the pattern so the resulting un-straight lines are not running the direction that the patio will predominatly be viewed from - not always possible... Also, ask you're suppier to give you the expected failure rate of the pavers and to allow the return that ammount when you're finished. You will get chipped corners so plan for it and do your best to return what is damaged. Good luck.

[PaverDrew]

Per the BIA, which is the brick industry's ICPI, PX bricks are as uniform as concrete pavers, and their tolerances qualify them for the same ASTM standards as the concrete pavers. Check with your distributor about what they carry in a PX rated paver.
Belden, Whatacre- Greer and Pine Hall are all readily available nationwide and have pavers that are PX rated. They are extruded and fired in an extremely controlled environment, and shrinkage is taken in account in their formulations.
Go onto the manufacturers websites and search for a local dist. Our local dist. will eat the shipping costs within a 150 mile radius if we have a full load, which you will need for a driveway.

BTW- Getting into brick estimation was a head scratcher for me. Pavers are sold by the sq. ft., brick by the 1000 pieces, and for their ease, our dist. wants to keep it that way. Every time I bid a job, there are an extra few steps involved in my material calcs. $540/ 1000= $.54/ brick. 4.5 per sq. ft., 495/ 110 sq. ft. cube = $267.30 per cube pre tax, as an example.

I am finding that the commonly used clay paver here, for commercial and municipal projects, is a Pine Hall Pathway brick, which comes in @ $.08 per unit cheaper than a concrete paver.

[Hank]

Thank you for all of the great info! We should start laying pavers this week. I need to check about PX rating. We are in southeast VA. The manufacturer of the paver we are using is General Shale. They are a true (so they claim) 4"x8". I also discovered the pricing/estimatiming headache like PaverDrew. I was trying to get square foot pricing, but that is not how they are sold. The pavers we are using came in a little more expensive, but it was not very significant. I will share my experience once we have finished.

[PaverDrew]

"We are in southeast VA"

Batchelder and Collins? Check with Jason in sales, a very helpful individual.

[Hank]

We have about 500 square feet on the ground. N. Solutions, inconsistent is right! Nothing like the concrete pavers we normally use. You are also right in laying the pattern to limit the views of the non-straight lines. When viewed straight on or from the top the patio/clay pavers look awesome. They are giving the patio a rustic/ olde town feel. We put a thermal-cut bluestone accent, four 2'x2' in a diamond pattern, in the center of a circular section to dress it up.

So far, so good.

[shux]

Hey Guys, good clay pavers will give you good lines, but keep that string line handy!