[Raj Venugopal]

How many of you guys overengineer your steps?

Anyone ever run geogrid under your step/riser courses or geotex under your basecourse as well as between the subgrade and crushed rock base?

Your thoughts?
Raj

[Stonehenge]

Have you ever tied the geotextile with washers and tapcon screws to a concrete foundation?

With steps being such a common point of failure in projects, I wouldn't call it over-engineering, I'd just call it engineering.

[Raj Venugopal]

No...never heard of that.

I was discussing this "overengineering" option with my wife, who asked a good question...

At what point with these kind of techniques is the effect marginal to non-existent, versus the cost outlay?

[Stonehenge]

Considering how inexpensive grid and textile is relative to a callback where an under-warranty teardown/rebuild is needed, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all to take those extra steps. Just be sure you charge for it.

Oh - and I meant to say geogrid, not geotextile in the post above. We'll often use a grid made by Versa-Lok that is woven more like a fabric then those more common grids from Tensar or Mirafi.

[Squizzy Taylor]

IMHO failures around steps are caused by a lack of compaction. Normally the rest of the wall has the daylights compacted out of it but the section above and behind the first step gets neglected ...often due to time constraints.

It should also be recognised that steps often form a break in the continiuty of the wall and thus if there is movement/expansion etc then the steps become the point of failure.

I probably get a bit carried away and over construct the steps but I call it "insurance".

[johnkeegan]

Versa Lok seminars have pushed building a set of steps using solid block from top to bottom. Of course, on certain long winding steps it's not practical but on most it is. Once you lay the bottom "pad" of block, it goes up super-quick. Just do some extra tamping on the base for insurance.
Yes, I know some will say,"Oh, sure Versa Lok suggests that so they can sell more block.".... Who cares? If it saves a lot in labor and call backs, it's a good idea.

[Stonehenge]

That's how we build 'em, too.

[neversatisfiedj]

You should never perm. attach any permeable surface to a non fluctualing surface. Our pavenets and steps flex guys with freeze thaw cycles. I try to pedistal build mine if the budget allows. For those that don't how many use a jumping jack to compact behind risers ?

[Stonehenge]

I'm not sure I understood what you just said.

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by neversatisfiedj
You should never perm. attach any permeable surface to a non fluctualing surface. Our pavenets and steps flex guys with freeze thaw cycles. I try to pedistal build mine if the budget allows. For those that don't how many use a jumping jack to compact behind risers ?

I am not sure I follow. What does being permeable have anything to do with it? Or, did you mean flexible?

[PSUscaper]

With the amount of settling I'm seeing anymore, I push the point that I overbuild my steps.

When possible, I always use the pedestal method.

For all front entrance stoops, I am moving to concrete footings with a slab, then I use the pedestal method on top of the that.

I see SO MANY bad stair installations its not funny. I really wish people understood the extra cost of building things right the first time.

[Keith N]

Originally posted by PSUscaper

I see SO MANY bad stair installations its not funny. I really wish people understood the extra cost of building things right the first time.

Mrs. Homeowner, "I didn't realize there was so much involved in building steps."

As you are gritting your teeth and trying to smile at the same time. lol!

[neversatisfiedj]

Yes permeable applications will be flexable correct ? For you pedistal builders , how deep do you make your modified base ?

I go 9". I also thought of pouring a footing slab as well. I hate the feeling that they may settle as no result of mine really.

[Matt Kulp]

I guess I am not following the whole "slab" idea. If you do your proper overdig for a suitable sub soil, use proper base compaction, and use the pedestal, why use concrete. Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of the system. I agree if you are just excavating "9 inches" and hoping that the soil is suitable, then you are playing with fire. The key is to have a suitable subgrade.

[johnkeegan]

We've switched to always using a jumping jack tamper near the foundation first. Uneven subgrade settling near the foundation can take at least 5 years (or more) to totally stop depending on what kind of crap was buried by the excavator. And even pouring a slab won't help if the whole area settles. I can't tell you how many poured concrete steps I've seen settle unevenly and always back toward the house.