[Stonehenge]

This is directed mostly at Paul -

I've been working on the bid for the waterfall for that big pond we've talked about before (the Gabion baskets, Rodeo vs Roundup, etc). Based on what this guy wants to do, I'm estimating 40 ton of outcroppings, which will no doubt have to be placed for the most part by a long-armed machine, like an excavator.

Assuming stone of various sizes, from 500#-3,000# apiece, what'd you charge just for the stone work in making a waterfall like this, in price per ton? (oh - and that price assumes how much in your cost/ton for the stone?)

[Paul]

40 tons just about 2 semi loads... our cost would be $60 per ton including shipping. Now placing the stone, I don't know how high your going to have to go or how far you need to reach, but here a excavator is going to cost you $150 per hr. with operator. I would be looking at getting $300 to $400 per ton installed for the small amount of stone you are talking about. Our last stone job was 700 tons, and we got $255 per ton installed.

Are you still going to have to install the gabion baskets?

[Stonehenge]

I think so. I talked to an engineer at Presto Products (based in Appleton ), who thought geoweb might work, but I'm thinking not.

So, yes on the Gabion Baskets. You think they can hold the weight?

We'll be reaching out probably 20'. And my stone price is probably double what yours is. So I'm thinking $360-460 per ton.

[Paul]

There is no problem with them holding the weight, check with GSI on the baskets, I'm thinking here that 18" coated baskets, say 3' x 12'. Extended past the falls by about 4'. 20' is a long way to reach with some excavators, you might want to check with a local crane company. You could excavate and build the baskets with a smaller excavator, then call a crane in to just set the stone for the falls, using the smaller excavator to set the base stones. Look at renting a 10,000 lb machine for that.

[Stonehenge]

Ok. That sounds sound.

Thanks for the help and info.

[Paul]

Ok , you look a little confused, so I'll list a few things to think of.

#1 Water control, figure that you'll have to sand bag the excavation. Use triple layer of plastic under and around your sand bags, plus a 2" pump minimum. don't think one layer of sand bags will work, use two or three. Water likes to move things!
I'll add this too you will get water in the excavation, so dig a sump and plan on having the pump run full time while working. Plus figure on having one person show up early to start the pump before your crew shows up. On the last job we did in water we had 2 3" pumps plus a person to run the pumps 2 hrs early.

#2 Gabion baskets, they can be wired up but a hog nose ring clamp is faster. The fastest way to fill the baskets is with a excavator, and two men to adjust the stone. Remember you need to pack the stone in tight. Start with the baskets closest to the bank, that way you can run the excavator up on the completed baskets, this also helps compact the stone. Use a good fabric under the baskets, I like woven fabric for this, it's stronger and allows water to flow thru.

#3 Setting the stone, get a couple of wire rope slings, chains can and will slip. Figure them just for this job, limestone has some sharp edges. Use rebar and drill thru your base stones to secure them to the basket stone.

A coated basket is wire that has a plastic coating on it, so it won't rust. If you run the excavator on the baskets make sure it has rubber tracks or use plywood, that way you won't catch a wire with the track.

[Stonehenge]

Not really confused, but the info you provided in the last post is stuff I wouldn't have thought of.

Do you run compaction equipment in the Gabion baskets as you fill them?

[Paul]

You have to be careful about bowing the baskets so we only use compaction equipment on the top of the baskets after we have closed them.

[Stonehenge]

Ok - I called and left a message with the wife - told her $25-30K for the waterfall they want. If that's in the budget, I'll get into more detail with them. If not, cya.

[PSUscaper]

A quick question:

What kind of pump/filter system do you plan on running the falls with?

I've been too a house that my friend did a monster waterfall at.
Its kind of one of those old quarry type ponds that has a huge rock ledge around one side......easily 50 ft plus in the air.
Down the middle of it, he made a waterfall that drops all the way from the top to about the middle, and then spills out and drops again to the pond.

One of the biggest problems he had was with the pumps. The pump was installed on shore and was fed from two 'floating' filters out in the pond (basically old tires with 'algeaqueen' filters on them) The bond, during dry spells, would drop considerablely.........and what would happen is the filters would bottom out. A bad thing because then the pump would start to suck in air........and none the less, burn out.

Just wondering how you planned your pumping system, as from the pictures, this pond looks very mucky and shallow.

steve

[Stonehenge]

It's mucky at the edges, but the middle is 7-8' deep, according to the homeowner.

I actually haven't spent any time yet with the pump layout - I wanted to get a ballpark on the hardscapes first and see if that scared him off. If it doesn't, I'll sharpen my pencil.

[Stonehenge]

Well, I haven't heard back from this guy, so I have to assume the price scared him off. No need to sharpen my pencil.

Oh well, better to find out now than after I spent hours and hours toiling over the design.