[johnkeegan]

I have a customer that was interested in a bluestone patio but may go with Stampcrete instead because the area along the back foundation (where the proposed patio would be) accumulates mountains of snow all winter from the large slate roofs and they were concerned that any non-solid surface would allow the melting snow to percolate down and not flow out (think snow dam) and perhaps create damp cellar issues.
In my opinion, Stampcrete would just cheapen the look of the house (classic brick/slate roof genre) but I do understand the concern. I mentioned radiant coils under the stone but he said it's mountains of snow 6-7 feet high that pile up.
Perhaps some sort of impermeable layer under the dry laid patio that would simply direct water out toward the edge of the patio, to then be redirected by perf pipe to a suitable area? If so, would that necessarily have to be a concrete slab or is there some other material?
And messing around with the foundation drains would just be a nightmare in this case.
Remember this would only be an issue with snow, normally the water would simply flow over the surface due to the appropriate pitch.
P.S.- soil is sandy/loam in nature.
Suggestion appreciated..

[AZTLANLC]

You can install a 4" concrete pad to install the blue stone on top of it, also some of the stamp concrete jobs I've seen mimic the natural look of stone.
Do you offer that service?

[johnkeegan]

Thanks for the advice...
As far as stamp concrete looking like natural stone... The key word is "mimic". Sorry, I'm born and raised a natural stone guy. I can tell instantly. And once you know that, it just cheapens everything...in my view. Besides, natural stone ages a certain way and never goes out of style. Stampcrete and pavers are continuously changing their "style," so inevitably in a few years it looks dated.

[phototropic1]

johnkeegan,
I don't really have anything helpful to contribute, because I don't live in an area that gets any snow. But I would have to concur with your thoughts on stamped concrete. I just have a mental block when it comes to it. Perhaps I've never seen a really quality job and would change my mind if I had. But until then, it's natural stone for me!

[site]

Does the guy have a wet basement now? If he does neither patio will fix it. If the basement is currently dry it will stay dry no matter which patio you build. A bluestone patio will allow almost all of the water to drain away before it has a chance to soak in.

[GLAN]

I like the stampcrete idea for the situation described....have seen a couple nice jobs......though you can instantly see it's not the real thing.

Decision is ultimately the home owners.........you do a 4" concrete base and then the stone will be expensive.........The budget is also the home owners decision......

Or what about a pond liner under some of the base material?

[johnkeegan]

Pond liner is a good thought..hmmm.

[mrusk]

Originally posted by johnkeegan
Thanks for the advice...
As far as stamp concrete looking like natural stone... The key word is "mimic". Sorry, I'm born and raised a natural stone guy. I can tell instantly. And once you know that, it just cheapens everything...in my view. Besides, natural stone ages a certain way and never goes out of style. Stampcrete and pavers are continuously changing their "style," so inevitably in a few years it looks dated.

That is soo true. SOme reason people still ask me for the octagon pavers. Then i show them a 2007 techo catolog.

[agla]

I agree 100% with Site.

[johnkeegan]

I tend to agree that it should not be a problem but this customer has at least a semi-valid point. It's a unique situation in that it's not just rain run off. The situation of ALOT of snow piling up against the back of the house could create a scenario where the ground under the snow is not frozen, yet the snow nearest the house is melting, yet it is damned up by the snow/ice at the edge of the avalanche. Hence all the melted snow may want to drain straight down,
There's also the point of not just saying to the guy (who happens to run a large commercial development business), " Hey, I don't think you have a right to be concerned, so I'm going to just design this my way and ignore your fears."
...And by the way, to date, this customer has spent over $100K with us landscaping their home.

[Nathaniel Carr]

If the guy does not have a wet basement now then he won't with a bluestone patio either. As a successful business man he should beable to see that. Remember K.I.S. (second S. left out cause this is a friendly place). He won't want to make the concern more of an issue than it has to be. Unless he can't understant normal thinking. (another acroynm in there).
If he is obsessive then the only real solution is a curtian drain, isn't it?

[cutntrim]

My suggestion is clear the snow. He's a multi-millionare, he can hire the same guy that plows his driveway to do it. Then build whatever patio you/he wants.

[trees]

Keep It Simple... Surely.

In that case:
How about polymeric sand joints? That should solve the water buildup problem.

[johnkeegan]

There's somewhat of a water problem now, so it's not as if he's a total "Henny Penny."
...and, in general, I try not to have a "my way or the highway" approach to customers concerns just because they don't exactly mirror mine. Especially, with a valued customer. It is their home. And, usually, with some creative problem solving and some give and take, these issues can often be resolved without all the bellicose language.
...I also don't believe in the "screw him, he's rich, he can afford it" approach. That will come back to bite you. (And remember your employees probably think that about you...and would be equally misguided).

[Fine Edge]

John, I have seen but not yet used a drainage tile for all different types of applications. I believe that the one I am thinking about is more of a sheet that can be installed under a patio.
Maybe 3/8" thick?
Don't know if you have tried any drainage suppliers to see what's out there that might fit this scenario.
This may enable you to use some type of radiant heat which would melt bottom layer and then be collected and run off to daylight.
Just a thought, I'll check with some of my suppliers to see what it is I actually saw a few years back.