[hickory lane]

Has anyone else noticed the declining popularity of decks?
I've seen so many homes lately with the patio door 2 or 3 feet above the ground so I suggest a deck to avoid steps out of the kitchen and most say they don't like the maintenance of decks and don't want even a small one for a landing. I could suggest the composite decks, (which I'm not real fond of) but they don't even want that. They want pavers with steps up to the door. I can just see them carrying a tray of drinks down these steps to the patio..........hmmm. Any thoughts?

[spiderlily]

I've noticed the same thing. For a while, everybody wanted a deck, even to the point of putting them where you can't even imagine wanting, using, or needing one. Now, everybody wants pavers or stone patios. Part of it is probably the fact that after you've pressure washed and resealed a deck, you don't ever feel like doing it again, but I think it is also just a style trend--I don't see many people using "landscape timbers" anymore either.

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by spiderlily
I don't see many people using "landscape timbers" anymore either.

Thank goodness

[mrusk]

Personally i like decks. I plan on doing a deck at my house when i build one.

But what i really like is mixing the wood and the pavers. Alot of houses have paver patios with 4 or 5 stairs leading to the house door. Build a nice set of stairs out of ipe or someother exotic wood. That will make the patio look awesome.


It seems like alot of houses in my area the only choice is a deck. They are building on lots that are sloped so bad that they would not of built on years ago because it would not of been worth it.

[hickory lane]

I'm with you guys. Hilly sites scream for a deck. I also like the combination of a small deck stepping down to a paver patio. That's what I'm suggesting to those people with the high patio doors. But noooooooo..........."decks are too much maintenance".
I have one. I stain it every 3-5 years with a garden sprayer. It's no big deal! I've even had people want to raise the paver patio up to the 3' door level. Of course they don't want to pay for the supporting wall or deal with the possible settling later.

[EpicInterlock]

I'm with mrusk and hickory lane. The combination of a deck stepping down to a paver patio is a very aesthetically pleasing solution. We should try and start pushing for more of these.

[mrusk]

Yea but most landscapers arn't good with wood and arn't smart enough to figure out that its easy to sub out little stuff like a set of wood steps.

[PSUscaper]

For all the deck believers here, have you priced out a deck lately.

I don't build deck, but often, I'll change a set of steps off on one to fit the new design. People can't believe what a simple set of maybe 4-5 stairs that are 5 foot wide with a hand railing cost. I always get looked at like I'm out of my mind.

Building with wood is not rocket science, but it is not easy. Have you tried to go to a lumber yard and just find a 'straight' piece of lumber lately? And if you do go to place that carries good wood, you will pay for it.

As for synthetic decks.....I'm not so sure I'm sold on them anymore. Now that there are a few of them that have been installed for 5+ years, I can't say they look all that good for what they were hyped to be. They may not need to be stained, but they still need to be cleaned.

Also, the problem I have with a deck is with permits. You put a raised patio in, no one really notices. You put a small deck up, all the neighbors are calling the town up telling everyone there was no permit. For some reason, wood draws attention. Its a shame too, because with the junk some guys are installing with block, they should be under the inspectors eye more than the deck builders at this point.

And don't even get me started with the rediculous hand railing codes. I know I can grab a 2x4" railing, but apparently no one else in the world can.

Yes, I overall, I do agree that in many circumstances a deck is better alternative to a raised patio, but first of all, that's not what we do, second of all, they are a permit gathering pain in the but, and third of all, witht he price of lumber, they aren't any more of a bargain.

And as the comment of not being smart enough to sub out a set of steps, I'll say that the smart thing to do is not to get involved with it at all unless you are going to do it yourself. No contractor wants to come in as a sub to build a set of steps. Hek, no one even wants to come in to build the whole deck unless there's a house being attached to it.

[mrusk]

Originally posted by PSUscaper
For all the deck believers here, have you priced out a deck lately.

I don't build deck, but often, I'll change a set of steps off on one to fit the new design. People can't believe what a simple set of maybe 4-5 stairs that are 5 foot wide with a hand railing cost. I always get looked at like I'm out of my mind.

Building with wood is not rocket science, but it is not easy. Have you tried to go to a lumber yard and just find a 'straight' piece of lumber lately? And if you do go to place that carries good wood, you will pay for it.

As for synthetic decks.....I'm not so sure I'm sold on them anymore. Now that there are a few of them that have been installed for 5+ years, I can't say they look all that good for what they were hyped to be. They may not need to be stained, but they still need to be cleaned.

Also, the problem I have with a deck is with permits. You put a raised patio in, no one really notices. You put a small deck up, all the neighbors are calling the town up telling everyone there was no permit. For some reason, wood draws attention. Its a shame too, because with the junk some guys are installing with block, they should be under the inspectors eye more than the deck builders at this point.

And don't even get me started with the rediculous hand railing codes. I know I can grab a 2x4" railing, but apparently no one else in the world can.

Yes, I overall, I do agree that in many circumstances a deck is better alternative to a raised patio, but first of all, that's not what we do, second of all, they are a permit gathering pain in the but, and third of all, witht he price of lumber, they aren't any more of a bargain.

As far as i am concerned, decks ARE part of landscaping.
If permits are needed for a job i pull them. Saying that neighbors call the town if they see a deck going up is a bad argument!!! Come on steve, i know you wouldn't build a deck without a permit!!


You need to find the right subs. It takes time to find the guys that don't mind doing just small stuff. I have several carpenters that don't mind a small job to fill half a day.


I guess everyone has their own style. IMO when i walk out someones back door and see 2000 sq feet of pavers i think to myself WTF!!! I'd rather sell someone a 800 sq deck that i make 10% on and and a 1200 sq ft patio/pool deck/whatever than see 2000 sq feet of pavers in someones back yard.

Know this is just what i think/like.

I am not sold on composite decks either. I've seen to many early trex decks that look like schit now.

[mrusk]

Moreover, what it comes down to, is if you want to do high end work you need to put wood structures, wheather decks, steps, pergolas, trellis, etc (along with masonry too) into your designs if you want to do high end work.

It takes more than pavers and srw block to build a distintive landscape.

[agla]

Some of the highest end landscape contractors bring in some of the highest end subcontractors simply to keep the job and reputation at the top of the market.

Personally, I rarely like decks unless the situation is not right for a terrace or patio. A deck is isolated from the landscape and often displaces a part of the landscape.

Think about it. A deck is almost always attached to the building along at least one entire edge and usually more than that. The space along that edge is pretty much dead space that you neither sit in or circulate through. When it is a patio, that area generally is planted enhancing both the building and the space in which you are sitting, eating, or gathering.

Often the deck is more than 30" above the ground and then requires railings which then further isolate it from the landscape. We are often seated on a deck and the railings are pretty close to eye level cutting into the feel of the space. If it is a raised deck, the view may be downward and then the railing is really intrusive. A patio terrace raised above grade can avoid railings by having a short drop into a planting bed and then a second drop to grade. The planting in the bed again enhances the space. The patio is "in" the landscape and the people using it are as well.

My opinion is that the phenomena of moving away from decks is much more customer driven than the wants or fears of contractors. What can you experience about being on a high end deck that makes it that much greater than a low end deck? I will grant you that there is some elevation of the experience, but none that compares with the atmosphere of being in a nice landscape space while on a well done patio landscape.

[jamesn162]

COMPOSTIE=TERRIBLE.............. WITH ALL MY DECK INSTALS I INCLUDE A POWERWASH AND SEAL 2 YEARS AFTER INSTALL.

[PSUscaper]

'Moreover, what it comes down to, is if you want to do high end work you need to put wood structures, wheather decks, steps, pergolas, trellis, etc (along with masonry too) into your designs if you want to do high end work.'



Here's a really cool site.....at least for day dreaming!

http://www.dreamhomedesignusa.com

If you would, take a look at some of the homes. Do you see any wood decks off the back door?

For some reason, I feel compelled to make a point. Since when do decks make a job 'high end'

I could be wrong, but these homes are "HIGH END"......its funny, but I don't see a single deck, srw wall, or even a paver walkway (well, maybe a few thousand in the driveways!) in any of them as part of the design.

I don't know, but when I hear this term 'high end' thrown around anymore, I really, really want to know what that means. I know agla does, and many others here, but not so sure about the rest.

I have been guilty of saying it myself. But, I would like to correct myself. The work I do may be nice....but 'HIGH END'.......not quite.

And I'm not ashame of that. But really, to throw a term around like that is just not right.

Its almost like a mass brain washing that has been going around in this industry. I've always made a point that manufactures push this garbage down our throats so much that we actually believe it. I'm not singling anyone out here. I've heard it all over the place, both here and from other contractors in my area. Its almost to the point that I feel sick when I hear someone say, "I really want to start doing high end work'......

I do to, but I would also like to make money. If installing decks makes you money, then by all means build one. If installing decks makes you happy, then install them. But installing raised patios makes me money (not my subs), so that's what I install. And no, they aren't high end. They're plain old patios.

[mrusk]

Originally posted by PSUscaper
'Moreover, what it comes down to, is if you want to do high end work you need to put wood structures, wheather decks, steps, pergolas, trellis, etc (along with masonry too) into your designs if you want to do high end work.'



Here's a really cool site.....at least for day dreaming!

http://www.dreamhomedesignusa.com

If you would, take a look at some of the homes. Do you see any wood decks off the back door?

For some reason, I feel compelled to make a point. Since when do decks make a job 'high end'

I could be wrong, but these homes are "HIGH END"......its funny, but I don't see a single deck, srw wall, or even a paver walkway (well, maybe a few thousand in the driveways!) in any of them as part of the design.

I don't know, but when I hear this term 'high end' thrown around anymore, I really, really want to know what that means. I know agla does, and many others here, but not so sure about the rest.

I have been guilty of saying it myself. But, I would like to correct myself. The work I do may be nice....but 'HIGH END'.......not quite.

And I'm not ashame of that. But really, to throw a term around like that is just not right.

Its almost like a mass brain washing that has been going around in this industry. I've always made a point that manufactures push this garbage down our throats so much that we actually believe it. I'm not singling anyone out here. I've heard it all over the place, both here and from other contractors in my area. Its almost to the point that I feel sick when I hear someone say, "I really want to start doing high end work'......

I do to, but I would also like to make money. If installing decks makes you money, then by all means build one. If installing decks makes you happy, then install them. But installing raised patios makes me money (not my subs), so that's what I install. And no, they aren't high end. They're plain old patios.

I guess you never seen a $150,000 dollar deck?

[AZTLANLC]

Would you share a picture of it?