[mstiles]

Is it ever o.k. to bad mouth competition? I frequently go up against my "Lex Luthor" in bidding on jobs. I know they cut lots of corners and I have been involved many times in trying to fix their mistakes years down the road. If it comes straight down to cost they usually beat mine by 5-10%, but I know it is because they are basically cheating. Anyway this has gone on for several years and I let it go with out saying one bad word, however a combination of me being sick of losing bids to them and a slow down in new house construction in my area has me reevaluating my position. Recently bidding against them for the new development entrance, the developer asked me my opinion of them and I for the most part told him. Then later I was lectured by the builder who had introduced us that you should never speak ill of your competition. I didn't offer my opinion out of the blue I was asked and for the most part I only tried to distinguish our construction techniques.

[Cochran]

My opinion is NO-ABSOLUTELY NOT! By bad-mouthing your competition, you put yourself in the same category as them. Also, they may cut corners and do shoddy work, but do they bad-mouth? If not, they'll have a leg up in another area.

Explain your pricing and what you are getting and your quality. BE CONVINCING! Let the client know what they are getting for 5-10% more cost. Tell them what you do that "Lex Luther" doesn't, which in turn, costs the client more in the long run. You can tactfully present yourself and your positive attributes as well as your competition and his flaws without being distasteful and bad-mouthing. Create a portfolio of your work that shows your potential clients your work and impress them with what you do!

Work on your delivery at home. Make a list of your pros and his cons and then develop a sales pitch involving those aspects without ever saying a "bad" word about your competition. When you are asked for and "honest opinion" give this same sort of spiel. Most of the time, in my experience, when a potential client asks your honest opinion they really don't want bad-mouth--it makes you look bad and insecure. It's amazing how honest and tactful you can be about a competitor's work without saying a bad word about him.

We charge more than most of the landscapers and irrigators in our area, yet we stay busier than just about all of them. It's because I sale our service and make it worth the extra money spent.

[spiderlily]

Cochran's got it. Practice your speech, until you have it down. Say whatever you need to say in a way that puts you in a positive light.

I think you can safely say, in a meaningful way, "some company's will do xyz, but we always do abc, even though it takes a little longer, or costs a little more."

[mrusk]

I used to work for a guy that bad mouths me all the time. When the guy finds out he is up against me on a job he his bash me non stop when hes talking to the customer.


Will i ever confront this guy? Hell no!!! As soon as he starts running his mouth the customer eliminates the possiblity of hiring him.

[Dale Wiley]

If the subject of the competition comes up, I acknowledge their existence in the market and then move on to something else.

If the subject of their price versus mine comes up, then I have not done a good job of pre qualifying the customer.

If I have accounts or target accounts going with them for a 5% to 10% price differential, then again I have not done a good enough job of marketing myself and the company, to force the customer to make a decision based upon solely price alone.

If you can execute the service at a better level or value, you can charge more money. If you are providing a commodity service in a flooded or saturated market, and you have nothing other than price point to compete on, then find another niche or market.

[Pelican]

I agree with Cochran. Focus on why your job is better, don't trash the competitor. It will pay off in the long run and you'll sleep better.

[agla]

There are two entirely different mentallities displayed above. One is from the perspective of being worthy of the the client (or more worthy than the competitor). And then there is Dale's mentallity of whether the client is worthy of him.

The second method only works when you have the ability to make the client feel that way. We all need to strive for that and realize what it takes to get there and to stay there. And as with any negotiation, who the other party is plays a huge role (other party being the client).

When that other party is going to make decisions based more on bottom line than on quality and you are often in this situation, you have to ask yourself if it makes sense to adjust down to that market and land the jobs - provide what your market is demanding, or does it make sense that you can move up to a more demanding market where those other guys are not good enough to be considered for the work? Then comes the next question - are we good enough to compete in that more demanding market or are we just going to be to someone else what our lesser quality competitor is to us?

No matter where we are, there are guys selling a little less quality than we are for a little less money and we are doing the same to someone doing a little more quality than we are. We all recognise the guy under us, but we seldom see ourselves in the same light to the guys above us. There is never a point where you are equal to the best and there will always be someone right at your heels.

You'll never sell an expensive job to a cheap ba$tard and you will never sell a cheap job to someone who values quality. What you can do is to try to find the clients whose values approach what you do and then pull them over to your side.

Bad mouthing your competition is essentially what that attempts, but really comes across as your inability to demonstrate your own worth (I guess it works if your running for congress). This also is very much counter productive in making your client feel like he needs to be worthy of you. He is still the guy holding the chicken feed while the chickens peck at each other looking for the hand out.

When you can hold the landscape job like a bag of chicken feed and having prospects flapping their wings to get attention, you have turned a corner.

[cutntrim]

Well thought out post Agla. Maybe in another couple years we'll be reading "Agla's Answers" column in Pro Magazine.

I would agree that more bad than good can come from bad mouthing your competitors. I'm in the camp with those that focus on stressing the benefits of hiring their own company versus discussing another's. I acknowledge the fact that there are other companies (many) that will offer a lower price when bidding against me, but often those other companies are cutting back somewhere to give that lower price.

When you start to get underbid on every job, and not just by one competitor, then it's time to examine whether your prices are justified for the work that your bidding on. Or if it's time to move on to a different target market.

[jwholden]

I don't badmouth competition. I do like to ask who else my client has talked to about the job. If I can find a moment to ask the question in a way that it does not give the impression I'm concerned. This info helps me to see where I am in the pecking order of contractors in the area.

I often get a free market analysis when I hear about other contractors. "Oh, I called so and so three times and they never called back." "I met with so and so and he quickly walked around the yard and never called back." "We ended up hiring so and so for the job." Next time I talk to so and so I find out what they did that I didn't to land the job.

[Dale Wiley]

Good post agla...

On the front page is an advertisement for Construction Programs and Results by Michael Stone..

I have read Michaels book cover to cover twice and am starting a 3rd time. In there he tells us to interview the client to determine if they qualify to buy from us. This is after we have determined what we actually need to do in our business.

We all know what we do and do well and what we do not do well. I have been fairly successful this year in screening clients on the phone. If they have called us, they have already made a decision to purchase landscape services, we just need to make sure we can provide the type of services they want to purchase.

I have taken my business to a point where I need some help taking the next step. To me it makes perfect sense to hire people that are experienced in that. I anticipate in retaining Michael to help me with a business plan to go from 500K to about 2 million over the next 3 years.

Michael makes some very good points in his book, and I credit that information for helping me increase 200k over the last year. Weeding out nose picking tire kickers who do not value what they want, and especially not value what my company can produce has helped me stop chasing a bunch of price shopping deceptive buyers.

[autophil]

Wow, that was an excellent post, agla.

[Raj Venugopal]

Keep an eye on the jobs that competitor "x" is doing. Where and as appropriate, especially where his work has fallen into disrepair or is deficient, solicit the repair contract.

Repair work can be as rewarding as new constructions, although frustrating for homeowners who end up paying for bad work, demolition, and getting the job redone.

Incorporate your repair services to your marketing plan. There's nothing more satisfying than presenting your before and afters to the client, and taking an excavator to your competitor's work while he's working up the street, or next door.

We've had the privilege of working with clients who have been taken by contractors, and they've really appreciated someone coming in and doing the job right. Despite the reno work we've done, however, we don't speak ill about others. Heard a saying at the stoneyard..."never set your level on another man's bricks."

[mstiles]

Very interesting replies. I really liked the "never put you level on another mans bricks" I have lived that for the last seven years of business. I haven't really changed my ways that much I am just more aggressive in educating customers on what they should look for to have a long term functioning landscape.
Off the topic, this other companies owner is a real jerk. He has gone so far as to walk on my job sites where I have a site sign and guys working to tell my customer how great a job they could do landscaping their home. I saw him later in the day and he told me he was just admiring my walls. When my employees and the homeowner had told me exactly what he said. Needless to say I don't like the guy and perhaps that clouds my judgement.
Back to the real subject. When someone holds up two bids on the same project and says why is yours more. One, he wants me to cut my price, which I am not going to do. Two, he is looking for an explaination of why it is going to cost him more. If I explain what I am going to do and he says "So they won't do it that way?". I say, "Well I don't know, but you should ask them." It seems fair to distinguish our construction techniques and in doing so I am apparently "bad mouthing the competition". If I don't attempt to educate the customer to make an informed decision, it seems unfair to both of us. In a very competitive market, I feel (you all apparently don't) the need to make sure customers are truly comparing apples to apples.

[cutntrim]

Originally posted by mstiles
... the developer asked me my opinion of them and I for the most part told him... I didn't offer my opinion out of the blue I was asked and for the most part I only tried to distinguish our construction techniques.

I (and likely others too) was assuming that for the "some part" you may have let your emotions get the best of you. That would be where you'd have been better taking the high road. Certainly there's nothing wrong with pointing out the specific values built into your projects which may differentiate you from a lower priced competitor.

[Stonehenge]

That's a valuable point, and one I'm trying to educate a customer about right now.

We were/are bidding against two of the largest companies in our market - both have G&A costs above ours. They had already received a bid from one of the companies, and that bid was nearly half what mine was.

Knowing where we've fallen on prior competing bids, I'm almost certain that we're not bidding on the same project. That is to say, our interpretations of what the client wants and needs were different. Especially when their labor charge was going to be in the neighborhood of $1,500 and ours more like $3,800.

So I'm going to try to convince this client that more investigation on her part is necessary, because the things we were going to do on this project can't be done by someone else for less than half the labor cost, no matter how fast they go.

Is this bad-mouthing the competition? I don't think so, but I am encouraging them to discover the differences in what they'd be getting, us vs them.

@mstiles - Is the guy a member of the local landscape association? If so, I'd bring it up at the next meeting.