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Old 02-08-2007, 01:22 PM
Acorn
 
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Arizona Flag Joint Recommendations - Re-Do project

Howdy, and thanks in advance

I have Arizona flagstone walkway and patio area that I installed over 5 years ago. Total was roughly 5 pallets of large “select” size flag. The stone sits on a bed of 6-8” of compacted (rolled and thumped) decomposed granite (DG), with the joints being a mix of DG and soil. The original plan was to grow Scotch moss/Irish moss between the stones. I pulled it off for the first 9 months, and it was truly awesome – had a real neat pattern of the light/dark moss. The problem turns out that it either gets too hot (in the autumn – I am in Santa Cruz, CA and it is foggy in the summer – perfect for moss!) and too wet in the late winter/early spring and the moss died. It then became an uphill battle where the moss would grow/die/replant. I tried to plant Dymondia due to it’s hardiness, and it croaked this winter when we got some heavy frost conditions.

So I am tired of planting and pulling weeds. I am looking for recommendations as to a decent looking joint material to put between the stone. DG in the joints seems to be nothing other than a weed magnet, and usually “blows away” after a while when I hit the walkway/patio with the leaf blower. The joints range between 1-4 inches, and in all this time only one stone has seen any appreciable “movement”. So I am ready to crawl on my hands and knees to dig out the joints. I really don’t want to pull up the flag to set it on concrete, they are frecking heavy, and the bed seems somewhat stable.

In reading the site here are the options I see
1. EnviroStone – only problem is no distributors in our area
2. Mix DG (?) and Portland in a 6:1 ratio and sweep in cracks
3. Pami-pebble – Intrigued by this if mixed with Portland (?) to keep it in place – don’t want weeds or it blowing around.
4. Poly Sand – seems joints are too big, and seems like I may run into the same problem as DG when my blower hits it

Any other ideas/recommendations?

Thanks again

Jack
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:57 PM
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Hey pplkook,
Good to here from another west coaster. I am also in Santa Cruz!
Crazy huh? Are you from here?
Anyway, can't give you to much help, except that I've noticed DG doesn't stick around as long as base rock does. It compacts much better, but you can't plant in it.
Maybe i'll see you around.
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Old 02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
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Poly sand is the way to go. After you mist it down, it sets up like mortar and no blower is going to get rid of it. There are poly sand formulations for wider joints (how wide are they?) that we use when doing dry laid stone work.
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Old 02-08-2007, 02:47 PM
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Is poly sand an additive you mix into your sand or is it bagged and pre-mixed? Or sold in bulk?
Forgive me for my ignorance, but I need to learn.
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Old 02-08-2007, 02:58 PM
Acorn
 
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Trees - the joints are between 1-4 inches (a few may be bigger). Antolini's Supply here in Santa Cruz carries the stuff so I could check it out.

My concern I have seen with the polysand was there were other posts where folks said it would "flake" on larger joints - or am I confused.

Anyone mix in the pami-pebbles with the poly sand? Would that help the polysand in the larger gaps?

-Jack

livingwaters - I am in Central Live Oak - off Capitola Rd, next to the Live Oak Super...
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:50 PM
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what if you incorporated steppable herbs into the joints? Something like thyme or oregano?
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:10 PM
Acorn
 
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4seasons

That was done is some spots, but due to the varying exposures and the desire to get away from weed pulling a "non-organic" solution is being looked at. I think that the large flag really heats up too much and cooks the plants. I think if the plant to flag ratio was more in the plants favor it would have had a better shot.

Again thanks to all for ideas/suggestions. The boss likes the pebble/portland or pebble/polysand idea as it will tie in with some of the other stone work. I am thinking that the pebble will also help the polymers bond together in the wider gaps (act like little polymer bridges)????

Thanks

Jack
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:32 PM
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I have seen an ad for polymeric stone dust(not sand) made specifically for dry laid stone and its larger joints. I believe it was called gator dust, but I am not sure. Check online.
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:37 PM
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The website for the polymeric stonedust is alliancedp.com.
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:30 PM
Acorn
 
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Adam - thanks, but that is only available back east, and not in California.

The local hardscape place recommended against polysand due to the joint size.

So I am still back at ground zero for material I can acquire locally in the SF Bay Area.

Thanks

Jack
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Old 02-15-2007, 11:56 AM
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what about covering the plants with a solar blanket before any frosts?
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:06 PM
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pplkook,

You can always buy the additive for poly sand alone, and mix it into a larger stone size to get the same results. There's even a company out of LA that makes this stuff to make soil pavements: http://www.polypavement.com/ - probably very similar. Give them a jingle and see if it'd work on your application.


This discussion has been included in the site beginner's polymeric sand page.

Last edited by Stonehenge; 08-22-2007 at 12:07 PM..
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