[Stonehenge]

How to Build an Outdoor Fireplace

I'm finding that the interest in this is growing, and the knowledge base for designing and building them (at least in my office) is a little on the short side.

Fine Edge was kind enough to help me a great deal with a bid I was putting together for one (though the jury is still out on whether we'll get the job), and it appears Treedoc has a fair amount of intimate experience with them as well.

So I thought we might put a thread together covering some of the basics of design and construction, including any code issues, footer requirements, managing air flow, cleanouts, etc.

I'll start with one question about codes - around here this is a very new thing, and no municipality seems to understand how to approach it. Their default is to call it a recreational fire structure, putting it in a group with fire pits, requiring it be 20+ feet from the house.

No conversations about the fireplaces that are inside the house (right next to all kinds of flammable materials) seem to affect this opinion. So for those areas where this is more common, can someone advise me on how to approach municipalites/inspectors so they don't make me put the fireplace a country mile from the house?

[mark allen]

Hey you're landscaping, and you do not need to have an inspector for landscaping ( although it would be a good idea sometimes). Be sensible in how far etc..... and CYA in your contract..... In Madison WI, they don't allow outdoor fires unless it is contained in one of those metal cages/portable brass pits. SO to do something like this inside the city limits.... well.....

what else can you do?

[Dragonfly]

Many times you have to argue w/ the city as to the mentality as to what their requirements are. The other thing you need to make sure of is that it has enough draw to pull the smoke up the chimney. Last but not least tell the customer that it is NORMAL for some smoke to escape from the front of the firebox, the fireplace is outside and is going to be affected by the wind, breeze, weather etc. as long as the client understands this you will both enjoy the experience alot more.

[Adam Buckpitt]

Does anybody know of any good websites or info about building them? How about grill inserts? any suggestions?

[ctr]

Master Stonehenge, Forgive me for replying without answering your specific questions, but I wanted to give you some experiences from the other side of the fence. I've been a firefighter for about 15 years, and have seen some homeowners do some pretty whacky things. Unfortunately, society has come to protecting citizens from themselves. It may not even be your specific customer, but the guy he later sells the house to. People use gas to start fires, use barbecue pits to burn trash (on windy days), etc.etc. I'm sure you guys have more "stupid people" stories than you would like. Unfortunately, this is why most residential areas hesitate to work with you and the resident in allowing what seems like nice project. Doesn't answer any of your questions, but thought you might appreciate some background for the rules. Actually, if your township has a fire inspector/marshall, you may want to talk to him about codes. Sorry about taking up so much space. Curt

[Stonehenge]

Not at all, Curt. And welcome to the site. Helps to give a different perspective, which might help in trying to reason out a solution to this kind of thing. And I agree about homeowners - I have a neighbor that is vigilant about taking her recyclables to the city recycling center. But aqt the same time, anything that isn't recyclable (food, toys) gets thrown into a 55-gallon drum and torched. Makes me wish I had a rocket launcher. Or could hide a stick of dynamite in the bottom of that damn barrel.

So in the interest of figuring out our current dilemma in this thread, are there designs that can be used that reduce the chance for homeowner to build the fire that can be seen from space, or prevent hot embers from flying through an open window in the house? Or anything else that might make an inspector feel better about this kind of construction being within shouting distance of the home?

[ctr]

I don't know of any specific designs. Some things that I've seen that help is using a mesh on top of the chimney to catch large burning debris (cinders, etc.) and have the fire box in far enough where someone can't build a fire close to the edge where it can roll out onto the deck. Something like having a hearth. Even if it's on the ground instead of a deck, the grass can dry out in a drought and catch if there's adequate fuel and alchohol consumption. I'll try to ask around here (eastern Pa.) and see if there's any standard.

[cdehoff]

Thankfully it seems that not all communities have taken such a tough approach to outdoor fireplaces. My local city engineer/building inspector said that so long as it is not attached to the house an outdoor fireplace is not regulated. The fire department does require that the structure be UL listed or meet local building codes. There are a couple terrific resources on line from companies in the fireplace business. Check out the following for designs and ideas:
www.superiorclay.com
www.isokern.net
www.firerock.us
We have seen a nice increase in demand of firebrick splits as a result of growing interest in outdoor fireplaces.

[Fine Edge]

From talking to local pool contractors around here and from my own experience, I can't find any regulations on dimensions, regulations, etc.. when building an outdoor fireplace. For instance, went to look at a job the other day and as I was standing in the backyard , I happen to look up the street through all the other backyards and what do I see but 4 pools in a row with 4 cheesy looking fireplaces next to them. I think it has become the status quo to include a fireplace in your pool design, no matter what it looks like and believe me, these had NO character!!!
As far as placement, I would hope that if any of you are building a fireplace, please use some common sense, don't place your chimney to close to an existing structure or roofline ( for downdraft purposes ) and try to educate the client on potential hazards ( mulch, pine needles, etc.. ) that may burn.
Believe it or not, I've built them with smoke chambers & no dampers, angled rear firebox, straight up rear firebox wall, & as long as your flue liner is sized correctly and centered over the firebox, I have seen no big difference in the way that these fires have burned. All of them have drafted very well and the construction process may just be a personal preference since there are several different ways to build the interior "guts".

Please post some pics as I am always wondering how others are doing the construction.

[fakie99]

fine edge,

do you have a tech drawing or design for one of the ones you have built? i think a few of us could benefit from seeing some practical building process tips.

[Raj Venugopal]

Thanks for posting these links. I spoke with the isokern guy in Maine last PM re a fireplace we're planning for next year. We're very limited in what's available here; I spoke with a stone distributor last night as well, who told me she'd never heard of these types of modular systems. I spoke with a few buddies who equally haven't come across anyone with this type of set up in their backyard.

I think this is a real strength of GTX...thanks to people like Jeff and the team that maintains this site, guys like me half a continent away from Wisconsin get to tap into others' experience to improve our work, and make a living.

In any event, I'd be interested in any other pictures GTX'ers have done, technical drawings, pictures of poorly done jobs, etc... with re to outdoor fireplaces.

Originally posted by cdehoff
Thankfully it seems that not all communities have taken such a tough approach to outdoor fireplaces. My local city engineer/building inspector said that so long as it is not attached to the house an outdoor fireplace is not regulated. The fire department does require that the structure be UL listed or meet local building codes. There are a couple terrific resources on line from companies in the fireplace business. Check out the following for designs and ideas:
www.superiorclay.com
www.isokern.net
www.firerock.us
We have seen a nice increase in demand of firebrick splits as a result of growing interest in outdoor fireplaces.

[Raj Venugopal]

As a follow up to this, I also spoke with Jeff Stevens from Fire Rock down in Atlanta.

He called me within a few hours of my sending him an e-mail.

Courteous, professional, answered all my questions. Product I believe is made in the US...Isokern I think is made in Denmark or somewhere in Europe.

FYI, their number is (404) 642-6850.

Let's keep on top of this thread. Definitely a trend in the industry worth following.

[Fine Edge]

If I'm not mistaken, the isokern & rumsford are fireplaces that you assemble on site and then do your outer covering ( stucco, stone , etc ). While these are OK to look at their benefit has to be the lower cost. I've never installed one because it just seems that most of our clients want something that doesn't look like an insert.
However, I think that some of the design aspects could be applied to a custom built fireplace, just like we will probably follow the Rumsford flue and throat design on our next one instead of your typical indoor fireplace flue and throat assembly.
I've looked all over the internet on good construction techniques for these outdoor fireplaces and the info is very scarce. I still need to learn more but I can say the ones we have finished have all worked just fine. I just started with a reference guide from the Brick Assoc. of the Carolinas and haven't looked up their site but here it is anyway: www.gobrick.com.
At least that's what it says on their brochure entitled "Good Practice for the Construction of Fireplaces". I figured if I could get an outdoor fireplace to have similiar specs as an indoor fireplace, I should be pretty safe.

[Raj Venugopal]

The thing I like about the install specs is how easy it looks, and that firebricking and veneering will give a great look without having to twist a mason's arm to deal with our fussing and fiddling.

[cutntrim]

Here in Burlington (at least South of HWY #5...for those who know the area) you cannot have an outdoor fireplace/firepit. So, I'm not likely to start constructing them any time soon.

I'd second the suggestion to call your local fire marshal though. Back when we lived in a condo, our condo board (the Gestapo as I referred to them) outlawed balcony barbecuing. I pointed out to the board that every other condo building, including the one directly across the street, allowed it and our building was all brick and steel vs. the brick and wood types elsewhere. Then I called the fire marshal directly and he told me that it was legal (not advised mind you) to have a BBQ, but not to transport a 20lb tank indoors (i.e. stairs, elevator) to use for the BBQ. My solution: I used 5lb tanks and told the Gestapo to go you know where...