[Nathaniel Carr]

A client of mine had a 7 ft deep pond dug that doesn't hold water. In our area the clay is usually lining enough, but her site is sort of shaley. She has tried relining it with clay but it didn't hold. She wants rubber or epdm. It is a big pond, shaped like a giant clover 100 ft x 100 ft.

Has any one laid that much rubber before? Know of any pitfalls to avoid?

[ianc]

the liner option keeps water in and springs out not a great solution + the added expense - really in a perfect world the site does not support a pond period - her excavator should have broke the bad news in the beginning. Is there any blue clay available to line the pond, or dig it deeper to find some clay

this is a classic square peg in round hole - sorry just the truth

~ian

[Nathaniel Carr]

ianc,
I totally understand where you are coming from.
She has already tried a number of times to seal it with clay, all with no good results.
Her site doesn't really naturally support a pond but she has built a trophy garden that is nationally recognized. And a pond would really fit the gardens.
She is the type to go to great lengths. And I want to beable to help her.
I guess I will see what the water garden folks would reccomend.
Thanks for you common sense two cents...

[ianc]

is there traces of a water leak on the perimiter - or a fill/bermmed side to the pond that appears to be where the water is leaking - could you not considering it is only 7'deep dig a slit trench in the affected bermed area and fill with concrete - sounds like I wigged out but the liner option is going to cost large $$$$

if the water is leaching thru the bottom - and the clay option does not work possibly a spring water collection method can be installed under the liner and pipd to the inside to keep that aspect funtioning

Hope it works out for you - hey if the client wants a liner
then do for it

~ian

[PSUscaper]

I'm confused on why the liner is not a good option. Is this because of the cost? I have a client who wants a 50 x50 pond. I just started working on the design, and am interested in knowing why a liner is a bad idea.

If this is a cost issue then I would have to say you need to disregard that. Who are we to say it is a bad idea or not because of the money. IF the client wants a lined pond, and if that is the only solution, and they want to pay for it, then how is that a bad idea?

I'm just confused on why the idea of a liner pond won't work. Also, I'm confused on why natural springs are such a concern. If the pond isn't holding water, then doesn't that mean there are no springs to begin with? Also, isn't it good to know there are no natural springs because they can cause pressure under the liner and cause damage?

If they want a pond I say give it to them. Is it going to be cheap....no, but, if they want it they may be willing to pay for it.

It may even need a well drilled to supply it, which, is not that uncommon. I know quite a few people who have wells feeding their ponds.

I'm just confused on why this is being considered a crazy idea.

[Nathaniel Carr]

Penn,
I think you hit the nail on the head, who is any body to judge any body else? I think we all learned that one by now...

I am hoping to become more educated about putting that much rubber in the ground. What are going to be the possible problems?
Moving it to the site...
Rolling it out...
custom seaming...
working on it in November...
underlayment beneath it...
edge treatment to allow surface water to go in and not under...

There isn't a spring supplying the pond but there is water supplied to this pond from a well and from 2 perimeter drains. The well line is near the top of the pond but the peremiter drain inlets are in the bottom. I figure they will need to be moved to the surface. But I have seen a liner check valve type thing in the Pond Builders Bible (yes I am a victim) that basically lets water under the liner pass through.

Any thoughts are appreciated

[ianc]

7'deep that is a farm pond not a waterfeature, find the leak - plug it - liners are for waterfeatures

I am not sure of the math - what size of liner is req? lxwxdepthx2

~ian

[4seasons]

that pond is going to take a few pieces to make it work. Rubber is easy enough to put together, when it comes down to it. Go with some type of drain under the liner to catch any seepage that your concerned about. another idea maybe?-------
could u do a shotcrete pond or would it crack?

[Nathaniel Carr]

Ian,

The pond as it is dug is 100 x 100 minus some. I haven't got the catalog out but liner is over .30 per square foot for epdm.

Your opinion of fixing the pond is the one she has been going with for a year, and she is a little discouraged that it hasn't worked.

[Paul]

Why not seal the bottom with bentonite clay?

[Nathaniel Carr]

Paul,
I guess she has tried fixing the leaks with clay already and it didn't work. Now she wants a solution that will work.
Is there a Bentonite source out there I shoud know about?

[Paul]

you do't just treat the leaks you treat the whole bottom. Check with a drilling wholesaler, it's used for well drilling.
try this link

http://www.texassodiumbentonite.com/index.cfm

[Stonehenge]

I've purchased our bentonite from a Wyoming company: http://www.wyoben.com/

Talk to their engineers there - extremely knowledgeable and helpful. They'll shoot you straight as to whether you can line the thing with bentonite or not, the particle size to use and quantity/density to use.

Bentonite is different from regular clay - you can tell by it's color - it's white. But more importantly, it swells to about 10X it's dry size when it gets wet, turning itself into a gel. Sometimes it can treat a leak - just throw it over the area where the leak is, and it will naturally find it's way to the hole and fill it.

Even holds up to moron GC's trying to test it by poking holes in it with a big stick.

Slick stuff.

But it has to stay wet, otherwise when it dries it cracks.

[PSUscaper]

I'm interested in betonite and found this article giving some general info FYI:

http://www.malibuwater.com/PondBentonite.html

My question is how available is this stuff. I'm seeing prices in the range of 150 a ton, but that is not with delivery. I'm wondering if it is a practical for use in the NE as their is no local supply. I'm also wondering what the overall cost of installing it is.

It sounds like the clay lined pond does have far less problems than that of a liner pond, but, I would like to know if the cost of installing it makes sense compared to that of a liner. Also, wondering if the costs of keeping the pond clean saved by using a clay lined pond compared to a liner pond would offset the initial installation costs.

This is pretty interesting stuff, but I don't know if it works around my parts.

[Nathaniel Carr]

One reason that I am considering the Bentonite as asolution is the Muskrats. I hadn't even considered a liner being damaged, but obviously the critters will wreck a liner.

She told me she dumped something in the water that turned it white and was supposed to stop up a leak. Must have been Bentonite. I wonder if she will entertain using it again?

Proximity is a major concern, like Penn said, there don't seem to be Bentonite mines in the NE.

Stone- how did you get your supply, bulk?, or boxed?