[Stonehenge]

We also have a TS400, and your hands will go numb before your back goes out.

As far as lineal feet of cutting per hour - the marking of pavers should be the same whether using tub or cutoff. So long as there aren't tight inside curves (forcing you to remove pavers from their location to cut them), I would expect to be able to cut at least 150' per hour (I probably measured it once against a tub saw, but that was many moons ago).

Re: the dust - we also cut dry. I've found that the dust, when wet, tends to bury itself into the pores of the pavers and is nearly impossible to completely clean. For the dust issue we use half-mask respirators (below). The paper masks are garbage - these are the first level of protective gear that will do a good job of filtering out the dust. The mask is about $20, replacement filters about $10 a pair.

For saw brands, I've found the Partner to have a great power to weight ratio, and the K700 w/ 12" blade is great for cutting pavers. If you have lots of detail cuts, the Makita/Wacker/Dolmar/Speedi-Cut saw has superior vibe dampening over all other saws, but less power than many. We can successfully cut much thinner pieces using that private label saw than we can using a Stihl or Partner.

@ Sleepy - the only cut I prefer to make by tub saw is cutting veneers, where the thickness of each (very thin) cut is important. A handheld just can't compete for that kind of cut. But every other cut I'll take the cutoff saw every time.

[dan deutekom]

I too cut dry with a Stihl TS400. I can't remember the last time we pulled out the tub saw. (not sure if it even still works )
I usually only mark every 3' for long curving cuts and just "freehand" it between the marks. If you have a good blade you can cut pretty small slivers if need be and you only have to remove pavers to cut tight inside curves. I use a dust mask but I have to admit that they are a pain in hot weather and after a full day on the saw I am pretty sore all over. Guess my age is starting to show.

[johnkeegan]

....150 linear feet an hour (plus maybe an hour to mark?), wow! Does everyone else find the same rate? And a big difference from the 120 ft./4 hours mentioned beforehand. I've cut alot of bluestone and I know I can't approach that rate...and the bluestone is only 1.5-2.5" thick and I believe not as hard as concrete pavers.
But I'll have to give it a try. I just wish someone could rig up a wheel kit that would allow you do this as a walk along. I know when I originally bought my Stihl I bough the wheel kit hoping I could use it that way but if doesn't lend itself to one-wheel-on-the-pavers-and-one-in-the bed cutting. Not only would that avoid the bending over, it would also help avoid the "talcum powder head" from the dust.

[Lanelle]

When you are laying the pavers, just lay the pavers a little beyond your cutting edge. We call that 'letting the paver field run wild'. Go back with your saw and now you are cutting in the field and not on the edge of your laying space. Pick up the pieces outside your cut and you're ready to place in your soldier course.
Cutting the soldiers takes more time since each that gets cut is done individually on both sides to make a wedge.

[johnkeegan]

We essentialy do that. Using the "paver scribe" I mentioned we lay the pattern into the area of the future soldiers, set the edging where it belongs, adjust the scribe to the length of the soldier and use the edging as a guide to mark the pavers with the scribe in a continuous line that is exactly the soldier length from the edging. Then cut.
...other question on using the cut off. Do you use the same blade you use on bluestone or is there one more suited to pavers?

[skahuna]

2+ feet a minute is probably about right for actual saw time but when you include layout and marking a walkway it adds a lot of time(for me anyway )
I use the same blade for pavers and bluestone(bluestone is a lot harder than pavers) and they seem to work find. a general purpose blade will have bigger spaces between the segments than a stone blade, it will cut faster but it will chip more and be harder to cut decent slivers
I was at an auction a couple of weeks ago and they were selling a ts 400 with a wheel kit. It looked like a paint liner that you hooked the saw in.

[Stonehenge]

I don't think I'd want to use a wheel kit unless the runs you have are very, very long. A wheel kit keeps the blade vertical, something you don't want when cutting curves (particularly inside curves), because the plane of the saw blade just will not want to go around a curve without doing major damage to the cut pavers you want to save. Holding the saw in your hand allows you to hold the saw at an angle when cutting those curves.

I'll have to time the cutting of the pavers on our next project. I would also tend to think cutting bluestone is going to take longer than pavers (no empirical proof, just a guess).

[johnkeegan]

"...bluestone is alot harder than pavers." You may want to check. I don't believe Pennsylvania bluestone (I'm guessing that's the main flagging stone used) is a harder material than the high density concrete used to make pavers. I have cut some stone (Southbay quartzite) that is very hard but on the hardness scale I don't think Pennsylvania bluestone rates that high. Perhaps others are using different stone, though.

[skahuna]

I did a little online checking and found this on bluestone but couldnt find any comparable info on pavers. I think pavers are hard on the surface but not that hard underneath. Ive never actually checked but my gut feeling is bluestone will take longer and wear your blade more than pavers


Bluestone Information

Bluestone is not a technical geological term. It is a commercial trade term, which has been used to describe a variety of sandstone, that usually is split and used as stepping stone outdoor paving for walks and patios, etc. (Flagstone).
Geologically . . . Bluestone is a fine-grained arkosic sandstone, also geologically referred to as a feldspathic sandstone.

This stone has been traditionally used for veneers, as a flagstone for paving and as a rough building stone. However this stone is being used more in other settings, counters, etc.

Group Sedimentary, siliceous
Composition Quartz and containing at least 25%, and as much as a third of, the feldspar mineral group. The matrix may be of quartz, calcitic or ferruginous cementing minerals with other accessory minerals.
Hardness Hard (Moh's Scale 6)
Porosity 0.4 - 6.6
Absorption 0.1 - 2.3
Colors The full color range consists of varying pastel shades of steel blues, mixed grays and light grays, together with buffs, pheasant, brown, and rusty variations. As virtually each stone is unique in its color, there is a very subtle change from stone to stone when set in a terrace or any type of flooring application. This creates the pastel effect which is so popular with this material.

[TripleT]

I'm going to try out marking the curve and then cutting all at once tomorrow. I just finished an 85 foot curved walkway and it took a long time to mark each paver and then cut it and then put it back etc. Imagine being done with a curved walkway in a day or two! This is great.

[HRLand]

Jeff, how much of an angle do you cut at to make an inside curve and what's the tightest radius? We try to use the demo as much as possible but I can never make an inside curve with it.

[site]

For a really tight radius we pull out the 4" disc grinder with diamond blade. It stays in the trailer about 99% of the time. The rest of the time we use the 14" Partner 950 cutoff saw. As for dust- DONT Breathe it!! Buy a good mask. There was a story on 60 minutes on September 11th, and they talked about all the health troubles the workers at ground zero have been having as a result of breathing the pulverized concrete (among other things). It seems that the concrete that enters your lungs stays in your lungs forever.

[Stonehenge]

Originally posted by HRLand
Jeff, how much of an angle do you cut at to make an inside curve and what's the tightest radius? We try to use the demo as much as possible but I can never make an inside curve with it.

Probably 10-15 degrees. As for the tightest radius - hard to say. We start by trying to cut every inside curve and only resort to pulling pavers when we start chopping up parts of pavers we wanted to keep. But we stick to a 12" blade for that stuff, whatever the saw size is that we're running.

@ Site - I thought I had sent respirators through one of the charities around 9/11 - saw the conditions they were working in and knew it had to be bad. Pulverized everything - steel, concrete, plastic, rubber, glass, insulation, carpet, adhesives...you name it.

I feel fortunate that I wasn't too stupid for too long when cutting pavers. Went from a bandana over the face to the paper mask to a half-mask respirator all in the span of one season - the first season we used those saws.

[bricknblock]

I would say that anyone installing the restraint on the "inside" is making the mistake, regardless of climate, but especially a mistake with freeze thaw conditions...either way, it will affect the soldiers

[johnkeegan]

My guess is too that everyone on the jobsite has to clear out and the customer shut all windows when you're cutting those pavers dry. There must be quite a dust cloud hovering. Have you tried cutting with just a little water coming out of the hose? Enough to wet the paver but not soak much into the bedding sand.
On another note, I would also suspect that cutting dry would shorten the life of the blade because normally the water provides the "lubricant" for the blade as it cuts. I know the blades often say, "made for dry or wet cutting," but it still must effect it.