[cutntrim]

While I was gone last week on vacation, a couple of my guys set a new record for going overbudget on labour when they clocked in TRIPLE the number of hours I'd estimated on doing a small front walkway extension job. Thank God it was a small project, 'cause I'm in a bit of a state of shock that it took 50hrs! to add 100sq.ft. to a front walk where the homeowner wanted just a "couple of inches" of screening under the pavers (tree roots from a mature tree were everywhere).

I'll be lucky to just break even on that little nightmare...We're starting another little job tomorrow (100sq.ft. flagstone) but you can bet that I'll be onsite for that one! It's the little jobs that kill you 'aint it?

[cutntrim]

Some guys were mentioning in another thread about having a minimum sized job (e.g. $5,000). I think I'm going to look at adopting that for new customers who aren't already maintenance accounts.

[jwholden]

Did the crew members do that type of work before (more than once)?

Did you explain the methods you would recommend and have them write down important details?

Did you come back from a vacation where you let your guys fly solo and severely scold them and bitch about what a lousy job they did?

Do you think they will be 'eager beavers' to take on a job without you by their side?

If we are going to be the boss we have to learn to look at the big picture and forgo some detail.

Yes, that really stinks. It is up to you to make the best of the situation and develop your people.

[cutntrim]

Originally posted by jwholden
Did the crew members do that type of work before (more than once)?

Did you explain the methods you would recommend and have them write down important details?

Did you come back from a vacation where you let your guys fly solo and severely scold them and bitch about what a lousy job they did?

Do you think they will be 'eager beavers' to take on a job without you by their side?

If we are going to be the boss we have to learn to look at the big picture and forgo some detail.

Yes, that really stinks. It is up to you to make the best of the situation and develop your people.

Yes they'd done it before (with me).

I explained how to do it and had my cell phone turned on all week so they could call if needed.

In 14 years I've never severely scolded any employee or "bitched" about what a lousy job they've done.

Not having done that...yes, they were (and are) eager to complete jobs (start-to-finish) without me there.

Yep, it did stink, and that's why I said as much...but I didn't say the work stunk...just the time required to complete it.

In the big picture I need to be able to have guys be able to complete landscape jobs without me there the whole time, just as they do maintenance tasks without me present.

It's true that it's just as much my fault for underestimating the labour times, as anyone's...but that doesn't make it any more palatable.

I just needed to vent and that's why I did it here (should have used the "Cabin" section) instead of directed at my employees.

P.S. Your tag line is a great credo to try to follow, but I can't say I've ever personally known anyone that has adhered to it at all times.

[Busy Bee]

A serious but chewing is in order! While the boss is away the employees will play. If your employees are unable to complete the job requirements, including the bid on man hours, you may want to look into replacing them.

[Matt Kulp]

Did you tell them before the job started how many man hours it supposed to take? If not, of course they are going to milk it somewhat. If they are not given a goal and a expected finish time, then they figure it should take them as long as it takes them and have no direction.

If you did tell them prior to the job start, then I would have issues as to why they did not call and tell you it is going over budget and why. That is what foreman are supposed to do.

[Busy Bee]

I don't think that milking is the word. Taking it to the bank fits best. If the employees have been there w while or even mature enough they would automatically know what is expected of them on any job, even going into ot.

[Matt Kulp]

All employees need direction of some kind. They may know what is expected of them, however they have no clue how long you think the job should take unless you tell them. That is an important peice of info that the owner/manager needs to tell his people on every job they do.

[dan deutekom]

Did the wicked heat and 2 days of rain have anything to do with it?

[trees]

Okay, here's where this thread degrades into the "You think that's bad..." stories.

Last time I went out of town one of my guys (no driver's license) drove a truck to a job (the forman was unable to work that day), did little to nothing for the better part of a day, then took the truck home with him and had a high-end circular saw (complete with diamond blade) stolen from it.

Needless to say -- he no longer works for me.

Leaving the crews to fend for themselves is always a role of the dice. Just feel grateful all that happened was a little riding of the clock (I'm grateful all that was lost was the saw. If he'd have gotten in an accident <shudder>. Bad, bad things, man).

Look at the big picture... did the work get done well? What can we take from these experiences to make it less painful next time?

Me... I'm going to make sure I have everything in as plain language as I can manage regarding expectations and what to do if unforeseen complications arise. I thought I had that time set up to be practically idiot-proof, but... we'll see if it's smoother next time.

[agla]

I had a recent conversattion with a contractor who mentioned that he puts time estimations on all of his jobs. He has found that the crew looks at it as a challenge and they try to beat it. They are disappointed when they go over. I thought that was interesting.

[Matt Kulp]

Originally posted by agla
I had a recent conversattion with a contractor who mentioned that he puts time estimations on all of his jobs. He has found that the crew looks at it as a challenge and they try to beat it. They are disappointed when they go over. I thought that was interesting.

It works. Sometimes you will have jobs underestimated, however you would be surprised how the production numbers change just by adding the budgeted hours for the job. If you tie a bonus system onto the budgeted hours, the guys really start moving.

[earthscape on]

i have found that you have to raise your sq ft pricing on small jobs( less than 100 sq ft) it doesnt matter how quick we would do our small jobs, we would never see a high profit margin

[cutntrim]

Well, I'm glad that my post has sparked some conversation at least, and some good ideas. Maybe I (and we) can learn from it.

I told them in advance that I had allowed two days to do the job, and scheduled it over three to cover for rain/delays, etc... The problem with my business is that I'm also a maintenance contractor, so when an installation job goes over, that affects the maintenance work as well. I don't have spare manpower to cover for such overruns.

I think he lost a ton of time on the cutting of the bricks, since he told me afterwards that the rental saw would overheat after a few minutes use and he'd have to let it sit for 10min. before it'd fire up again. Not sure why he didn't just call the rental guys and swap for a new saw. Also, instead of using the brand new diamond blade I'd purchased on the last job, he instead took a couple of old emergency backup abrasive blades. The one he used didn't even have the metal arbor ring left in the center anymore. This after I told him where I'd left a "Diamond" blade for him in my garage. Oh well...

Today didn't start out much better on the small flagstone job. I left an employee to continue excavating spoils by hand while I went to do some run-around crap, and he managed to split the main irrigation line. Ordinarily I tell customers to shut the system off if they're not around (just in case), but they told me they'd be home...they weren't.

I'd been up until 2:15a.m. getting my books in order for my bookeeper to do her quarterly report the night before and had sleepily forgotten my cell phone at home. By the time I got back (neigbouring city) and got it, the water had been flowing for 15-20 min. I returned his alert page on my cell and he's like, " Water! Water! Uh, I split some kinda water line, AAAAHHH!" This was the day after he backed a truck over one of the push mowers.

Good times...

Only got half the lawns cut too, 'cause I had to race to Toronto to catch the Jays blow a 2-0 lead to Texas in the 8th...one of those days.

'nuff said. Bed time.

[Stonehenge]

Lol - I'm really sorry to laugh at your troubles, cutn - I can certainly empathize. Sometimes it feels good to know others hop into the same boat with you every now and then.

I think the advice presented here has been great, and the only thing I can add is a reference point for something I did a long time ago working for another company:

The scenario was almost identical - front walk, so easy access. Hand dug. 120 square feet. I was about 21 at the time (not sure how that factors in, but thought I'd mention it). Me and my crew person installed this paver walk (including old-school mixed concrete edge restraint) did it in about 22 total man hours, or one full work day. That was with an average effort, with as much skill as a 21 year old and his 20-21 year old subordinate can string together. Just for reference on future projects/estimates.