[BRL]

LOL I had asked about Versa-Lok in this thread, and the project is basically doing what that picture showed. Sort of.
Other thread

So I went to look at that job the other day and have a few questions for you all. In this case there is an existing timber wall we are removing, and some patio block is rough laid on the existing soil & being removed. Wall & patio are 3 feet high. So we want to replace the timber wall with a Versalok wall and then install a real paver patio.

1. Should all of the area behind the wall & under the patio be removed & then base installed? Or can the normal amount of base for the pavers be installed onto the existing soil, except where I need to excavate for the wall? The other problem is the currently not functioning irrigation system runs under the current patio. So I will be excavating to get to that, and have suggested the client have it moved to the outside of the patio area. So I could potentially end up needing to disturb much of the area under the patio. If that is the case I'm assuming I should just back fill with base material instead of existing soil tamped, then base material. Correct? If I don't have to excavate that area, can I leave the existing soil behind that wall, not including what I have to excavate for the wall & drainage? (it may be easy to cut off irrigation before it goes under that area, then redirect as needed & leave what's there, there.)

2. Another question I had was matching the patio pitch to the wall, but after looking at some pictures in a Versalok sales bbrochure, I think I might have it figured out. What I'm thinking of doing is running the slope down from the house & using bullnose pavers for the edge the slope comes to. I'll use a different color for the bullnose (and continue that color for the soldier course) to help contrast the drop off. I was also thinking of installing the paver "lights" (using Hollands and the lights are same size & installed in place of pavers where wanted, anybody use these? Comments?) near that edge to help identify that area at night. On the one side I am thinking I will just use the wall caps & step up half way to have the wall slightly above the patio. On the other side we're putting in steps, so I think I'll do the same thing with those walls, just use a second cap to step up the wall on the far side where it continues to the house past the steps. Now if the client doesn't want to do that, they were considering the wall be higher than the patio slightly. In that case, I'm thinking of using the same slope & just installing a couple of drains with grates at the sloped edge to get the water out. Other option is to cut some holes into the wall where needed? Or, does anyone have other ideas??

3. Is it easy to install lights in versalok walls? I've done them into natural field stone walls & it was easy to hide the wires, & install the lights where wanted. But I'm not sure how to go about that with these types of walls. I was considering putting a couple in the side walls around the steps.

I think that's all I haven't figured out myself for now, but I'll probably come up with more Thanks for any help.

[Stonehenge]

I'll have a detailed answer for you tonight.

[BRL]

Thanks!
Went today to pick out some sample pieces to take to them to pick colors tonight.

BTW I forgot. Speaking of DIY. He showed me his driveway. He had installed a concrete pad in front of the 2 garage doors. Not bad work. However, here was the surprise. About 7 years ago he installed Dutch style pavers between the concrete & the road, and about 8' wide along the driveway. No base prep. Just hit the existing nasty slate\clay soil we have around here with a plate tamper, then layed the pavers & tamped them after installed. It really doesn't look bad considering. I can see some areas that moved, but they are not big gaps. And the average person not in this biz wouldn't notice any of the problems. I was really surprised to see that. I've seen plenty of "professionally" installed paver walks that were way wacked out by the first winter season of freeze thaw cycles, let alone 7 winters. So some DIY's actually have talent... or lotsa luck

[Stonehenge]

The area behind the existing wall - if it's dirt, take it out.

As for the pitch of the pavers - the retaining wall block are always set level - do not lay them to follow the grade - they will follow it right down the hillside, a millimeter at a time. You need to crown the pavers - in the pic below the brown is the block, the red is the pavers, looking at a cross section of the patio. It should look like this right up to the house.

As for what to do about soil below pavers - anything disturbed, loose, uncompacted or spongy must go, replaced by crushed stone. And when building up a raised patio, I always start with 3/4-, changing to screenings when I get close to the top.

Lights - Versa-Lok doesn't have any made for their block (that I know of), but there are lights made for Pisa that are 6" in height, and can be used for a V-lok wall - just cut 6" off a block so your seams stay the same.

I like paver In Lites better than the Holland lights - they stay in the paver better and look cooler ( ) IMO, but they take more work; $400 in drill bits and a good drill.

[Stonehenge]

Here's the In-Lite:

[BRL]

Thank you! (BTW The PM I sent you was before I saw this post, so I think this proves my point & answers that question LOL).

"The area behind the existing wall - if it's dirt, take it out."
The area the wall is holding in for the patio is 13' by 28'.
So basically everything inside the walls should come out & be replaced with 3\4" and then the last 6" at top with screenings mixed in for the patio base. Or can the parts lower that I may noit need to disturb remain? If I'm replacing all of it, that would mean the patio will have a 3' foot base (it better not move , eh?), however if this is overkill & not really necessary, I'd rather not take it all out to help the customer's budget a little. But if it absolutely needs to come out, that's fine too, we want to do it right, once, the first time LOL. I'm thinking geotextile fabric should be used in this case correct? So the stone is OK to back fill on that? Would it be OK to use QP back there & just use the 3\4 clean for the drainage backfill right next to the wall? (Getting these ideas from looking at the VL Install Manual)

As far as the patio vs wall goes, spoke to the customer tonight & they thought they'd like the patio to meet the wall caps flush on the long section of the wall parallel to the house. I thought it would be OK to instead of have a crown, simply pitch away from the house. There would be the slight angle where the pavers meet the cap that's all. So the patio would be level along the house, and level along the long leg of the wall. We were then going to just step the side legs of the wall up as needed to make sure the side edges of the patio aren't exposed. Any reason not to do this??

I like that In Lite better too, from the picture. Any links or manufacturer's name & number you can supply? Thanks. It looks like a 3' diameter hole. Did you use a concrete core drill, or a regular hand drill? I think I payed around $100.00 for about 1.5" diamond tipped mason core bit that works in regular drills in the past. So $400.00 sounds right for that size. Or if you don't drill holes like that often, you can rent the core drill for a half day & do one project quickly & easily.

[scl]

Down in my area my distributor has all the stuff to drill the in lites and its very reasonable to buy the brick drilled. They're just outrageous in what they want for the lights. Can get them from an hour away for 1/2 the price. Still have a tough time selling them though. Too many cheapskates in my area.

[Rex Mann]

We sell the in lite lights for $60.00 per. That includes the drilling, light and wire from the transformer. The transformer is priced separately according to the size.

Peace,

Rex

[Stonehenge]

There are actually two bits you need - the first bit you could replace with a core bit, the other is more of a specialty bit. Check this thread to see what the bit looks like.

Is the pic below the, in a general sense, the way the wall, pavers and house will marry? If so, I'd advise the crown method over this. Otherwise there will be a bunch of places along that wall that will be unsightly and a tripping hazard. Best bet is to make the wall on height, and the pavers meet the wall height flush all the way around the wall, with a crown or bubble in the middle to shed water.

[Stonehenge]

Here's a low level example of what I'm talking about. This patio has retaining wall all the way around, with a crown in the middle.

[Stonehenge]

You can see that the crown is very subtle. Yet it's effective. Here's a closeup of where the steps on the patio meet the house, so you can see the crown up close:

[Stonehenge]

See how the middle is higher than the sides? That's how the whole patio should be installed. The only tricky part to this is accounting for that crown when setting your retaining wall block, to allow the extra inch or two for the crown.

[Stonehenge]

Oh yeah - you wanted a link for the In-Lites. It's weird, they appear to not want to be known - after an exhaustive search, I found a supplier in Michigan: http://www.consumersconcrete.com/inlite.html

They are friendly folks there - they can send you the bits and the lights. If I recall, the lights are $7 apiece, and you know the bit prices.

You might think "Rex, you're charging $60 per light?" Wait until you have to install them. $60 is fair. Not to mention, in many areas you just can't find this kind of thing - so there's a novelty tax you can apply...

[Rex Mann]

Last year I used over 200 of those little lights. Easy upsell. My old vendor did all the drilling and sold me the "guts". They charged me $ 11.00 per light and $ 11.00 per paver to drill. Pricey, but it's was not worth the mess or time for us to do it. I am now a distributor for them. We pay around $ 3.15 per light. We have a local concrete cutting and coring company drill them out for $ 3.00 a piece Only drawback is they only drill the large hole. Not thrilled with the stability when it's done that way. I plan on getting my own drill and bit setup.

Peace,

Rex

[scl]

My local supplier is getting $70 for a drilled wall block complete with light, $30 for a paver with a light, and $11 for just the light. Drilling sure seems expensive to me. Like I said at these prices y the time I add any markup and labor, they price themselves right out of the install. Too bad, they're pretty cool.