[landguy]

How many people use Concrete for there paver edging?

Before Plastic Paver edging material was sold on the market we always used redi-mix concrete. Cost is 3.50 a bag and will do 20'. I pack soil up to the edge of the pavers and run a compactor over them, then take an edging shovel and scrape away about 3" away and 1" under my soldier course. I then mix concrete and put it along the edge 1" below the top of the Pavers and tapering off to nothing, Making sure it goes under them also. My grade than goes right to the edge of the pavers. you never see that black Plastic. The other reason is I live in a very sandy area and have a problem with nails holding in sand. Sand does not hold nails or bed edging spikes.

[HRLand]

When installed properly you won't see the plastic edging. Your base should extend beyond the edge of your paved area by at least 6". This gives you more stability along the edge and a stronger hold for the spikes.

[John Palasek]

Plastic edge restraint is the way to go.

Concrete will crack over time and the edge of your walk or patio will begin to pull apart.
I've had many instances where I had to get topsoil, for example, to a planting bed and I had to cross a paver walk we just built. I have driven my Bobcat over a just-compacted walk, (with a plastic edge restraint), and I have done it without moving a single paver.

Also, a lot of contractors seem to think that installing a "wet edge" soldier course is somehow quicker and better, (it is neither, in my opinion), then, they install the field pavers over a standard gravel/sand base. Usually, after a season or so, each and every one of these installations has the field settling more than the edges and the edges eventually crack.


- Compact the native soil
- Add Geotex
- Then add a graded aggregate
- Compact the aggregate
- Install the bedding sand
- Install the pavers
- Install the edge restraint
- Compact everything
- Get paid
- Never have to worry about it again.


That sure beats repairing things a few years down the road.





-JP

[landguy]

Thanks for your input. I live in a very sandy area and have a problem with nails holding in sand. I've done probaly 30 paver jobs a year for 15 years and never once have i had to do a repair.

Just my 2 cents

[AZTLANLC]

I dont't think it matters if you do it on sand or clay regarding the nails, since someone previuosly stated the nails are going to be driven into part of the agregate base. Which has to be well compacted.

When I took the ICPI course they talk about even the different types of materials for spikes, they recommend the steel spikes versus the aluminum, since it will rust and stay better in place.


I don't know about your area or quality of labor but around here I have seen many jobs fail due to use of concrete.

To properly place plastic or aluminum edging you have to take away the bedding sand before nailing down and use 1 spike per foot.

That way the edging will not show.

[Stonehenge]

I think JP and HR are in part suggesting that your base prep extend such that you aren't driving spikes into sand at all - it's going into your aggregate base, which should hold the spikes fine. Get spiral spikes for some added bite, and remember to pound each one in a t a different angle for even more holding power.

I was raised near the Detroit area, so I'm familiar with the concrete edge as a paver restraint. Problem with that stuff is, it's only 3" or so thick, and 3-4" wide - no bead of concrete, no matter the ingredients or how well it was installed, is going to hold together in a 20, 30 or 40 foot ribbon. It's going to crack every 18-24" (or more often - I've measured it) - sometimes the pavers will stay attached to the concrete as it migrates away from the rest of the pavers, sometimes not. But it does crack, and it does move. Years ago I tried to improve on the method by pounding in rebar along the edge prior to installing the concrete - it was only a minimal improvement.

As a side note - whatever edging you might choose to try, use one that attached one to the next - we use aluminum edge restraints from Sure-Loc and Curv-Rite, and they both allow you to make one continuous strand of edging, further helping to hold everything in place.

Hope that helps.

[F.E.2]

I have to agree with extending your base and using the plastic edging. I've never seen concrete hold up well.

[Greensmith]

How long will concrete last before it falls apart? In one of my clients neighborhoods a contractor blew out about 50 patios in a two month period but he used concrete for all of them. They look decent to me at last glance.

[jwholden]

I have had problems with plastic edging, and I'm sure it's due to me overlooking some detail when installing it.

After about 6 months to a year my sailor course gets a 1/4" gap between the field pavers. I install an extra 8-12" of process at the outside of the patio but this problem is baffling me.

The jobs this happened on did not have a woven-geotextile below them. I do scrape all sand before installing the edging. I know part of the problem is that I cut the pavers crooked with the chop saw so it is physically impossible for them to 'touch'.

I also have problems with Z-master lawn mowers bumping the 1/2" the pavers are proud to the lawn and loosening them.

Do any here have similar problems?

[landguy]

Originally posted by Greensmith
How long will concrete last before it falls apart? In one of my clients neighborhoods a contractor blew out about 50 patios in a two month period but he used concrete for all of them. They look decent to me at last glance.

Thanks for all the replies.

While i'm not saying that the concrete edge is right or wrong. It has worked for me for years. i was taught that way, In the oakland county area of michigan and never thought twice about it. I don't even think they had a edge restraint system when the first pavers were manufactured. When I first saw the edge restraint system I figured it was another marketing idea that someone or company thought of to sell more products, so I just kept laying them the way i was taught. I've done probaly 30 paver jobs a year for over 15 years and never once have i had to do a repair. I live in a small town and had to make sure that all the work was quality or you will hear about it quick. here is a picture of a job after about 9 years. I do that quit often to show what a well estabilished job looks like over time.

The other reason for never changing was cost. When i do 250 ft of concrete it costs roughly $43 for material , while paving restraint would cost $250 plus nails. On 500 sq.ft that would be .50 more a sq.ft. plus I didn't figure on packing 10" of gravel to nail a spike.That would increase the cost even more. Once it goes through the 4" of base it's in pure sand. It does not hold well. They make the nails long for a reason. Now in clay that might be different. Maybe it has to do with sand not heaving as much in the winter. Sand is the next best base to Gravel. Once the grass roots it holds it even better. I always save sod from my excavation to pack along the edge for a nice clean finished look.

I guess i'm old school.