[fitzg2md]

How would you go about installing stone edging around a bed? The stone is whats called "indian cobblestone" by my supplier. It is basically square cobbles that range in size from 4 inch to 9 inch long...rather standard depth and height. If I were dry laying them, I would simply trench it, lay maybe a 2-3 inch base, compact, lay the stone, and be more or less done with it. Problem is, the supplier has pictures of the stone all mortared together, and it looks fairly nice. Since its mortared, would pouring a small footer of concrete be necessary? I would think that for freeze thaw issues, this would be needed, but how deep a footer does this need to be? I can see this being alot more expensive than what the customer thinks they want... "just outline the bed with them...oh that looks nice like that...ok, lets mortar them together..." ugh -MF

[Fine Edge]

Really depends on what their budget is. You could set them in the existing soil for $$$ or really take some time , add base, compact, mortar for $$$$.

[Stonehenge]

To have a snaking bed edge that is guaranteed not to crack, I believe you'll need a footer to go below the frost line, at least in some parts. I can't believe they'd bite on the cost for that.

The picture they saw was most likely taken within minutes of completing the job - I'd ask for the address and take a spin by for current photos. My bet is it's cracked and heaved all over the place.

One other option might be to make a shallow pour and make relief cuts every 2-3', then make sure that when you mortar the stone on you leave a small gap where the relief cuts are, anticipating the heaving (I know Agla knows the name of a good caulk-like material to use at the seams to give a mortar-like appearance). Then when it moves it'll do so in sections, just like a poured sidewalk.

[agla]

The way it is done in my area, or at least one of the ways, is to use cement in the installation. It is not to withstand the freeze/thaw cycle, but to aid in the installation and make it much more stable than simply dry lating them. The cement cracks under the grade for sure, but the cobbles hardly shift. They also withstand being driven over much more than dry laying them.

Most important is that it is much easier to dig a trench, toss in a bed of soft cement mud and push the cobbles into it than to be messing around digging in or adding stone dust to set each cobble. They don't joint them because they will look like hell WHEN they crack. Showing some cement at the base of the cobbles (like a gum line to your teeth) is OK because the cracks don't really stand out. You can do really nice clean lines and level tops doing it this way and it holds up.

It is faster for sure.

[Pelican]

This thread brings up an issue I've been doing battle with since I started this work. Too many contractors in my area are willing to do a job fast and half assed as my Dad would say.

I agree with Jeff's analysis of this job, to do it properly and have it last for years, a sub-frost footing would be required but would be cost prohibitive to most customers. A number of my competitors would simply throw them in place and mortar them up, and then collect their money and run. I can't do that and sleep at night, I've lost quite a few jobs because I wouldn't do a job I knew would fail.

[jwholden]

I'm about 40 minutes east from Pelican and an hour south of AGLA and the cement bed is the way it is done around here. I did my first job on a base of three inches of clear gravel with the belgian block in cement, and quickly realized that it takes longer and kills any profit on the job (they haven't moved in 5 years).

All masons in this area install the block in cement, few mortar the joints. Mortared joints look nice but tend to crack and prevent water from draining through. Good ammunition to explain not mortaring the joints when talking to your customers.

Hint - Use a 2 x 4 to set the level of the top of the block if running them along a walk or lawn. They don't need to be perfect (did I say that).

[Keith N]

Originally posted by agla
The way it is done in my area, or at least one of the ways, is to use cement in the installation. It is not to withstand the freeze/thaw cycle, but to aid in the installation and make it much more stable than simply dry lating them. The cement cracks under the grade for sure, but the cobbles hardly shift. They also withstand being driven over much more than dry laying them.

Most important is that it is much easier to dig a trench, toss in a bed of soft cement mud and push the cobbles into it than to be messing around digging in or adding stone dust to set each cobble. They don't joint them because they will look like hell WHEN they crack. Showing some cement at the base of the cobbles (like a gum line to your teeth) is OK because the cracks don't really stand out. You can do really nice clean lines and level tops doing it this way and it holds up.

It is faster for sure.

This is exactly how I do it. We dig a trench about 3 inches deep and 7 inches wide, the width of the shovel. I make my concrete just a hair wetter than a no slump mix and trowel than set the stone. After I hit the stone into place I take a tiny finish trowel and smooth all for edges of the stone so no water can get into the cracks. This method has worked well for the last 2 years, beyond that I can't say at the moment. I don't morter in between the stone for drainage reasons and a more rustic look. Since I mix my mud so dry I probably could use it for morter. I'm going to experiment with is shortly.