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Old 02-18-2006, 10:23 PM
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Screeding the Base

I am new to this site, but I like it already and I would like to introduce myself, so feel free to check out my website at www.legacyland.com

I would like to hear from any contractors who do not screed the final layer of "base." I attended the MAHTS last week, (excellent seminars, learned a lot and the vendors where very helpful), but some of the contractors where "raking" the final layer and not screeding it.

How can you possibly get that base within 3/8" tolerance in 10' without screeding it?

My installation times are not that good and I am looking for anyway to increase them "without" sacrificing quality.

Talk to me................................
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:57 AM
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Welcome to the site, TJL.

We don't use a sand bed layer and after the screed rails are set we screed every time - so I can't be of much help there.

Of those here that use a sand bedding course (and there are a lot), there are a few that rake the sand using a special rake (not really a toothed rake, more like a wood float).

Seems that would be harder, but they seem to do a nice job.



I'm glad you found the site and hope you get a lot out of your time here.

Jeff


This discussion has been included in the site beginner's brick paving page.

Last edited by Stonehenge; 02-24-2006 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 02-19-2006, 08:57 AM
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I swing both ways on this method. Sometimes I use rails and others I just use a screed rake. It is an aluminum rake that is either 3' or 4' wide. I will use rails when it is a smaller paving with simple drainage going in one direction. When I get into larger pavings with the drainage going in multiple directions I will use the rake. It takes time and patience to develop the skill to use it and you must check your grades constantly using a transit. We also lay on our bellies and look over the grade for dips and hills but for large projects with multiple grade changes I find it a quicker method. Just don't rush it and check often.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tjl
I am new to this site, but I like it already and I would like to introduce myself, so feel free to check out my website at www.legacyland.com

I would like to hear from any contractors who do not screed the final layer of "base." I attended the MAHTS last week, (excellent seminars, learned a lot and the vendors where very helpful), but some of the contractors where "raking" the final layer and not screeding it.

How can you possibly get that base within 3/8" tolerance in 10' without screeding it?

My installation times are not that good and I am looking for anyway to increase them "without" sacrificing quality.

Talk to me................................
Welcome to the site!

For our final base layer we do it different based on the job. If we are doing a driveway with a 14000# compactor we machine spread all the layers b/c screeding with a 6" pipe is a PITA. On maller jobs sometime the only way you can control your lifts for smaller compactors (4000#) is to screed it with 3" pipes. Either way we do it, it involves extra time to get the final base correct. If you screed the pipe marks always create a problem and if you machine spread the overlaps create a problem. I find pricing wise, the final layer, is similar to setting the base course for wall block, no matter how you do it, it is the most time consuming.

If you need further explanation let me know.

Dan
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:42 PM
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Thank you everyone for commenting
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:57 PM
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Fine Edge is just really nice Fine Edge is just really nice Fine Edge is just really nice Fine Edge is just really nice Fine Edge is just really nice
We'll screed as needed or use the rake like Dan confesses to using. He's right, it takes some time to get it down right but if you keep checking with laser / transit / string , you know your base is going to be right.
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:42 PM
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Love your site... especially the Yankees circle pattern. Nice. We screed with concrete sand only. We are currently checking into power screed tools. I've heard they are great labor savers. You've got to have a keen eye to float a rake for the sand base. Don't trust my guys that much....
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Old 02-20-2006, 08:58 PM
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We always use rakes and flat shovels to work our aggregate base. We use string lines. And we use rakes, that at a 45 degree angle under the string line the tines are the elevation we need for our final elevation. After compaction on the final lift, we take a 10-foot screed pipe or 12-foot screed board and check for highs and lows and correct from there. Screeding seems like it would take longer.

Peace,

Rex

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Old 02-20-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rex Mann
We always use rakes and flat shovels to work our aggregate base. We use string lines. And we use rakes, that at a 45 degree angle under the string line the tines are the elevation we need for our final elevation. After compaction on the final lift, we take a 10-foot screed pipe or 12-foot screed board and check for highs and lows and correct from there. Screeding seems like it would take longer.

Peace,

Rex

ArizonaPavers.Com
Rex,

I think it does take longer to screed, but I think you adjust it less when you are done. What I am trying to say is that both ways are probably about the same amount of time, at least they are close. We do it different ways to see which is more efficent, but in the end, depending on the situation, they are about equal.

Dan
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:06 AM
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I use cast iron pipe that I set at the level of the final base before we place the last two inches. Easy to adjust the height by adding more base under the pipe or hitting it with a hammer to make it lower. I compact the final lift three times
1) add enough base material to get me close to the final level of the patio or walk and use metal rakes to screed then compact
2) put a light coat of base and screed with a 2 x 4 and conmpact
3) put one more light coat of base and screed with a 2 x 4 and compact

If I use my eye I end up second guessing myself and going over the walk again and again with a grading rake. I will use the grading rake where it wouldn't work to use the 2 x 4's such as a tight turn with a change in grade.

Walks on a slope, that aren't installed on a constant slope are a PITA!
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Old 02-21-2006, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckcland
We screed with concrete sand only. We are currently checking into power screed tools. I've heard they are great labor savers.
ckcland

I didn't even know a power screed existed until you mentioned this. I have since hunted for them on the internet and found several "Power Screeds" used for concreting work. Like you, here in Perth, we screed sand only (bricklayers sand usually which has some clay content) and only use roadbase/gravel under the sand if it is for driveway or other heavy load.

Are these (concreting) "Power Screeds" capable of screeding sand for paving? Have you or anyone else reading this used them?

Now that would be a time saver! Even still setting steel rails etc mechanising the actual screeding would make it much quicker, and easier too as you're standing up to use the machine. Probably better from OH&S perspective also....
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Old 02-21-2006, 06:39 AM
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I think some of you did not understand my question and others got it right on. What I was talking about was strictly the "base", I know we all screed the sand.

JWHolden-you do it exactly how I do it. I do believe from all of your responses that it probably takes about the same amount of time in preparing the base. Having read all the responses I also think that you can not possibly get the base within the acceptable tolerances by grading, that's just my opinion.

Thanks again for a active and stimulating conversation.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:28 AM
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I don't screed the sub-base. I rake it then compact it. Screed rails come out for the screening (not sand) underneath the pavers.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:59 AM
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mrgeen, check ou this link pavetech . Not power screeds but you can pull with a tractor or skid steer.
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:03 PM
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Does anyone set up screed forms for the aggregate layer for walkways ? I have thought about it but have never heard of anyone doind it. Seems to me it would be faster.
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