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Old 03-31-2005, 10:10 PM
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Pools and pavers

A client that we did a lot of work for last year wants us to install pavers around his pool which was installed in october and was backfilled with the excavated dirt. I know we can't compact tjis area so I went to a class on this at the mahts show. They said to pour a concrete slab around the pool and install the paver base over this. Anyone ever done it this way? How long do I need to wait for the concrete to set?
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:10 PM
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If you have a gunite or shot crete pool, there is no reason you cannot excavate in the normal way, prep the base, and lay the pavers. Instead of the standard preformed or flagstone coping, you can mortar bull nosed coping to the pool. Most of the returns are schedule 40, and pretty deep, so running a compactor over the top should not effect the pipes, at least we have not had any explode to date.

If the pool is a fiberglass drop in, the overdig is usually back filled with sand because it fills the voids faster and unless the sand was dropped in in bricks, you should have had most of the settling you would normally have.

If you pour a slab, you got a cost of $125 a yard for concrete, $300.00 per finisher on site, then you lay the pavers....Seems way over kill to me.
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:12 PM
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I'm not sure why you would pour a slab (rigid pavement), then prep for a flexible pavement above it. Lots of extra work for zero extra benefit. If you pour the slab, pour it so you can just screed off 1/2-1" of coarse sand, then install the pavers. Mortar the soldier course at the outside perimeter of the pavement, and use polymeric sand in the joints of the project.


This discussion has been included in the site beginner's polymeric sand page.

Last edited by Stonehenge; 08-22-2007 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:17 PM
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Bill - about 15 years ago I saw the wildest failed paver project. A pool was installed (shotcrete I believe), and several months to a year later the company I worked for installed pavers around the pool. I don't recall if it was only a few months or a year later, but the owner brought me out to have a look and a laugh - the entire pool had heaved out of the ground about a foot, and the pavers near the pool had settled 2-3 feet! We weren't sure what was at work here, if maybe the pool was built over a spring, or it had leaked and freeze-thaw pushed it out of the ground, or what. But it was the craziest thing I had ever seen.
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:25 PM
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Jeff:

It's called Heave....And, if you are a pool builder, make sure that pool popping/heaving is not an exclusion in your insurance policy!
If too much water is drained from the pool over winter, the hydrostatic pressure will pop them right out of the ground. We had one at an apartment complex, olympic sized pop 5 feet high on the deep end. Ripped every line in haf along the way...The coolest thing was listening to this burn out type dude describe what happened as he watched it pop...Said it was there one minute and then rumble shake thud...up it came!
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Old 04-01-2005, 12:02 AM
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Why not skip the pavers and pour stamped and dyed concrete around the pool. the at least the area can be hosed off.
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:05 AM
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Maybe I should Have mentioned that this is a liner pool with steel sides that are 36-40" high so there's no compacting it. There is also an X shaped brace attached to the sides every 10' and concrete all around the bottom of the walls. The concrete slab for the pavers will only be around the over-dig area which is about 4' and the remaining 4' of base will go right on top of the dirt as usual. The client wants pavers because it will tie into some work that was done in the fall.

If you had control over how the pool was being installed would you have them backfill with base material rather than dirt? I dont want to go through this again in the future.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:00 AM
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Oh - I was picturing in-ground the whole time. If I had my way, the paver area would be backfilled with 3/4"-. Whenever I have the chance to require this of builders where we'll be putting in a future patio, I always do.
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:01 PM
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Again, forgot to mention, it is in-ground.
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:13 PM
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This is a very typical dilemna in for vinyl lined inground pools.

The safest bet....wait one year. This is often tough as now one wants to wait. My usuall practice is to wait at least one winter so it goes through at least one thaw and de-thaw. Some pools can be tricky though. Some are dug in the dry of summer, and when they back-fill, the dirt does not pack back in well. Then when rain hits, you get a real mess around the pool. I think it was last year I did a pool that was installed the previous year and it was still a muck pit a year later.

The best solution for a vinyl lined pool would be to have the pool installer backfill with 3/4 stone and compact. The thing is, it is nearly impossible to coordinate this type of thing. 50% of pools are installed before the client even consults a landscaper....and I know no pool companies who care what they back fill with.

I did talk to a excavator who actually re-excavated a vinyl lined inground pool last year to put stone around it, but you don't want to hear the price.

Best thing is to wait a year, and then you can have some confidence that it won't sink.....anything less I would never mention a warranty against some sinkage.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:09 PM
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Unfortunately this guy won't wait any longer. I've been waiting all winter to do this job and if I don't get started next week he'll be getting someone else. I already lost? 2 other jobs that the clients decided to hold off on so I need this to start the season off. In December it was looking like I would start the season with about $100k in construction and planting work now I'm down to about 25k.
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:00 PM
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WHat do you folks do where pavers meet the edge of a LINER pool?

I have heard of installing a 2-3' border of concrete and using this as an edge to but the pavers against. I looked at a job once and the concrete lip was looking like it would get in the way of any attempt at installing pavers.

As mentioned above, any issues with damaging the liner when compacting around a liner pool?
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:37 PM
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John:

Typically, the pool has coping on it after the pool company turns it over, or we have installed bull nosed pavers along the pool top. Where the pavers meet the bull nosing, all you do is run your pattern against them as though it was a linear shape you had to cut around. I'm not at al a fan of mixed surfaces, so what I would do is remove the concrete and add new coping (pavers)
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In the year 1491, if the Naturescape Landscape Company did the site work in Pisa, Italy, they would not be calling it the "leaning" tower.

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Old 07-07-2005, 11:47 PM
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I've walked away from this type of job a number of times. The pools in this area are built the same way, steel sides with a vinyl liner. Usually at the top of the pool there's a 6" rim of galvanized tin, with plastic coping holding the vinyl liner in place. I've had requests to put pavers right to the edge of this coping, but I've declined on each.

It's my feeling that the only way to secure the bricks at this edge is to glue them, but glue doesn't adhere well to galvanized metal. Add to this the frost cycles we see during winter and I think it's a failure waiting to happen! I won't be getting any calls that my bricks have fallen into the pool and damaged the liner, you're responsible for repair!!

What I recommend to the client (as does my areas most successful pool installer) is to have 2' of concrete installed around the pool, then I do my brickwork from there. These pools have brackets to support the concrete and guard against settling, so you have a stable surface to mate to.

A job next door to the one I'm currently working on just installed bullnose bricks right to the edge of the pool, next spring I'll check to see if my theories are true.
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Old 07-08-2005, 12:32 AM
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25k in gross revenue doesn't compare to 100k-200k in liability.
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