[bigviclbi]

I have a question about how you guys screed the base aggragate. I started doing pavers this past year and actually did some large jobs(for me 3000 sq. ft.)My only problem is getting the base level. After i put the base in I screed the sand with one inch pipes no problemo. But i haven't found an easy way to do the base as I don't have a laser level yet. I usually run lines every three or four feet and measure down so I get 3 and3/8(paver plus sand) from string to base. Obviously this is time consuming but at least it works right. I have also laid 2x6x12 down 3 and 3/8 under the string and screeded that way. I am going to MAHTS but am not sure if they will give an alternative to lasers. Anybody got any advice?(i know buy a laser!)

[Stonehenge]

I know what Paul is going to say, so I'll stand back and let him say it.

One rather rough method you could try (if you already have the equipment), is a Harley rake. You can get things closer than if you were shoveling and raking by hand, but you have to have a pretty good touch with the machine, so you don't end up tearing everything up.


This discussion has been included in the site beginner's brick paving page.

[Paul]

We used screeding machines, but I still don't know if they are cost effective for smaller companies who don't have high payroll over head. Other options are laser guided grading boxes again your talking about an $18K investment, not something that most companies can cover with doing medium paver installs.

[Bill Schwab]

One of our foreman invented a technique that I first questoned, but, he smokes everyones times, and, there have not been any settlement issues.

He takes the sand, dumps it using the 257. Then he takes the 6 way blade, and backdrags the sand with the lazer sites on each corner. He will work it back and fourth, sometimes to the point where there is less than an inch of sand. Then they run the compacter over the top, then one last time with the machine and they are done. The guy is amazing with this thing. He screeded off a 2800 sf drive in a few hours, and had it laid in 2 days, with a 3 man crew. Then the following day we sent a detail guy in to make the cuts and another guy to help with sanding the joints.

I'm not quite getting why he packs sand, but, his times are good enough to where if he wants to pack sand, let him!

Pauls right, those pull behind screeds used to run into 6 grand or so. And if you want a self propelled one, fergit it!

[BJR]

In Aus we are not allowed to pack the sand. They says that it stops the pavers from bedding down into the bed. However, I have always compacted my sand with a plate. I find it gives a superior finish. Especially when walking on the pavers that you haven't passed with a plate whilst laying. Here is a link to our standards.
www.claybrick.com.au
Sorry I just checked the site and you now have to pay for the info. I was once able to download it fore free.

[dan deutekom]

I just downloaded it for free. I think they just want money if you want the printed version.

[VoodooChile]

Hey! Wasn't the question "How do you guys screed base aggregate.... if you don't have many large to spend on laser guided toys?"


As a non-heavy hitter heading in to his 2nd season laying pavers, I'm wondering the same thing...so step up guys and gals and answer the questions asked, please!

[Stonehenge]

Hmmmm. You may be right, Voodoo.

If you don't have any extra money, you'll use shovels and rakes, like you may already do. If you have a few hundred bucks, you could buy a few more pipe and a magnesium screed board to knock down high spots and fill low spots in the stone base.

Another option that I saw from Diginahole (where's he been, by the way?) is found in this thread. A couple chains and a railroad tie and you're ready to go. But this assumes you have a skid steer or tractor. I'd like to give the method in that thread a try - looks like it'd be pretty quick.

[VoodooChile]

Thanks Stone!
That's a great thread I've never seen and a real slick solution to the problem....this site keeps delivering.

Who can't afford a RR tie and some eye bolts? And I think my Dingo would pull that rig just fine. Hats off to diginahole and GTX!

[bcx400]

We screed are base with 1" pipes and screed boards, same as the sand layer. However, we start with 3/4" modified gravel, raking and tamping the base to 1" less than finished height of the base. Then we switch to 1/2" modified, (not readily available everywhere) which screeds like you are pulling small ball bearings. The result is a base that reflects your finish height and slope of pavers (less thickness of sand and pavers). We then lay the screed pipes for sand (no shooting elevations here)- just lay 'em down and screed.

[Bill Schwab]

Bigvic, lemme ask you this. What tools do you currently have in your tool box? Do you run a skid steer or tractor? Do you have a plate compactor? Etc etc.

Let's assume you have little to no tools.

You could say for a drieway, set two rail boards out of a 2x4 along the edges, then get a 2x6, or 8, cut a 1" notch out of eacj end, set that on top of the wooden side rails and pull along.

Anywho, it may help to know what tools you have in the box before suggesting.

[scl]

Let us not forget a coupe of my most important base grade tools, the 3' and 4' rakes. Great for scraping across the base to find those uneven spots , and also, a couple of concrete pullers to move base and sand around.

[Rex Mann]

BigVic,

We do use a laser, however that is at the very end to get the final base elevation perfect.

We use string lines even if we are using motorized equipment to place our aggregate.

We use hard rakes that have 4-inch tines.
At the proper working angle the tines slant away from you and measure 3 1/2-inches down to the aggregate. We use this method, because it saves us from stopping and measuring every couple of minutes. This allows us to get really close to our needed elevation.

When you are raking the tines will just go under the string when the rake is tilted at the working angle.

Once we get close using our rakes, we will use a 10-foot long screed pipe to check for highs and lows. We will roll the pipe over the base. Your pipe must be straight with no "tweaks". Then we find our highs and lows. Our standards are + or - 3/8-inch over 10-feet. Any thing outside of those numbers are addressed. Smaller areas you could use a small screed board or even a level to check for highs and lows.

BTW: When you pre-compact your bedding sand you are lessening the ability of the pavers to achieve maximum interlock.

Peace,

Rex

PaversInstalled.Com

[dan deutekom]

A little patience, a grade rake, a few string lines and getting down on your belly to look for dips and high spots is a cheap and believe it or not accurate way of doing things if you don't have a lot of equipment. On some jobs I still prefer to do it this way and end up with a great job with no standing water or drainage issues.

[BJR]

For years I have been setting up strings 2in above the desired base level. I then used a concrete screed that was 50mm thick and screed to the strings. We only use a laser or dumpey to get our string heights. I don't like to use rakes on the base because the they drag out the stone and leave the fine material behind. By the end of the job using a rake all you have left is a great pile of stone in one area. Therefore we only ever use shovels.