[daveb]

Hey Everyone,

I am looking for any opinions that you have (good or bad) on Allan Block products.

I operate a re-wholesale nursery supply yard, and Allan Block is interested in making us a distributor of their products.

At the moment we do not carry any block, and I am more involved in the plant side of the industry.

So I am wondering if I and my customers would be happy with this product.

Thanks for any info, Dave

[Stonehenge]

Being from Minnesota I'm surprised you don't have block all over your yard - isn't MN the birthplace of a lot of block mfg's?

To the issue at hand - I prefer solid block to cored block, mainly because of the design and installation flexibility it gives you when it comes to corners, tight curves, meeting other structures, etc. For reference, I believe there is only one supplier of this kind of block in our area, and they are no longer offering the block due to lack of sales (Jason - correct me if I'm wrong here).

Also, having to fill in the cores is a labor drain.

So it's not that I dislike the product, I just have other preferences. In my area, there's a local supplier that makes a good cored block (Jason?....), Keystone makes some nifty stuff, as does Unilock and Versa-Lok. I guess I'd choose any one of those before Allan Block. But that's just my $.02.

[Paul]

First any block that you carry needs to be well made. I've seen many name brand blocks that were poorly manufactured. As far as installing them I too like the solid wall units but my tastes lean to wards the larger commercial walls that most landscaper don't install. We have installed Allen block walls ( I hate filling cores) and have turned out nice walls. Given my choice I still like solid walls because of less parts needed for the install.

[CountyMaterials]

Well, my answer will be coming from a sales guy whose main retaining wall block is a hollow-core system so you can take my answers how ever you wish.

Allan Block - personally, I like how quickly their system goes together, no pins, no mortar, just stack and go. Curves are easy once you get to know how to use their block. As far as sales go, I haven't pushed them because we have so many other block that we offer that are already established. In the southern half of Wisconsin we sell a ton of them.

Hollow-core block - (I wont try to up-sell my product here cause as I have said before, I respect Jeff and this isn't the place for me to try and sell. That being said, if you want more info on my block, PM me.)

Take for instance Versa-Lok, which I am not bashing cause we make Versa-Lok as well, but when you split that block in half to make the corner unit, that is one small piece to be using at the weakest point of the wall. We all know that the corner of a retaining wall is the weakest point, that is why it's best to have an arc in it not a 90 degree corner. Would't a separate piece that ties back farther into the wall be better? Allan Block and my County Block have that. Actually, ours is a bit different, it's 2 pieces, a male and a female system that lock together.

Now, for drainage, a hollow-core system is still better than a solid system because you have a natural place for the water to go. Still assuming the normal drainage system and drain tile. Around here I see solid walls that are white as snow because of efflorescence. The water gets soaked into the block and shows up on the front of the wall because of the process. The customers brown wall is now white after 1 year. Again, that happens all the time even with the correct drainage behind the wall.

The other thing with a hollow-core block is the "rock lock" obtained with the geo-grid. More stone locking into the grid and thus holding the grid better.

I hear that statement all the time about a hollow-core block taking longer because you have to fill the stone in the cores. Well, how do most of you backfill? You take your bobcat and dump the stone behind the wall right? It's not that much hard to dump the stone into the cores at the same time. But then you have to clean that stone off the block? You still should be cleaning the top of your block anyway. There is always the possibility of loose material getting on top of your block.

Again, you can take my opinions with a grain of salt as I sell hollow-core block mainly, but I also sell solid block, Versa-Lok and all Keystone products. I have worked with and installed both, maybe a hollow-core does a tad bit longer, but I like the added drainage and rock-lock. As far as testing, our block that we make test out the same as Versa-Lok.

Also, I am not here to try and convert everyone to my block or another's, please don't think that that is what this "salesmen" is trying to do here. Now....if you live around here, that's a different story.......

Jason

[CountyMaterials]

Umm, I hope I didn't kill this thread?!? Just to add something specifcally about Allan Block, their classes are great in my opinion and they are the only manufacturer to have their block tested in earthquake situations. Their web site has info on that I believe.

[Paul]

Hollow core you have to fill every course, with solid units you can built two or three courses before back filling. This holds true on large high walls where you need to achieve a certain compaction factor. Solid core walls might have only one grid per every 3 courses and require compaction that you can only achieve with heavier equipment not slowing down the wall crews while the back fill is placed and compacted greatly speeds up installation

[CountyMaterials]

True, point well taken Paul. While I did concede that a hollow-core block might take longer to install somewhat, but I don't know that it would be that much greater if any when costs are considered.

On the flip side:
#1 at least as far as my block go, the cost of the block, because we produce it right here is less and many times can help to ease that extra labor cost. Less cost because of less concrete being used. I don't know that I could say that if it were in CA paying the wages that Bill has to pay?!?

#2 is would you rather have your worker carrying 1 or 2 blocks at a time? 2 blocks at a time increases your productivity right? Labor savings right? With hollow-core I can carry one in each hand. Even with a Versa-Lifter it's hard to carry two at a time, safely and I sure can't carry a Rockwood or Keystone two at a time. While that doesn't't matter for the base course cause it depends on how fast the guy laying them can get the base course done and level, it will make an impact on tiering up the next courses.

#3 is Angle of Friction. Take a solid block for example. When you stack, for practical purposes you have 2 pieces of smooth concrete resting on each other and can be slid easily cause there is not much friction. Hollow core have a higher angle of friction because the drainage stone inside is all locked together from course to course.

Please don't take this as an argument, just various opinions. As others have said, that's what is cool about this site, no arguing. As with anything, there are pro's and con's. It always goes back to what works best for you. This is fun and your responses (Paul) help to keep me on my toes for any rebuttal I might get around here from contractors. I need to have an answer for everything!!!

[Paul]

#1 I wish I had Bill's wages! Mine where much higher!

#2 I never really wanted to see my personnel carrying wall units, My personal tastes ran to much larger wall units that we machine set.

#3 Unilock Sennia stone would think has a higher angle of friction than any wall unit that I know of unless you go bigger to the Dura Hold system.

I guess I'm the only one around that used a Base Maker to install wall units, wait if I remember right Bill used one when he was here in Illinois. It made base installation much faster than the old pick up and pound and scrape method. I also used mini excavators back in the early 90's to install walls while everyone else was hand digging or using a skid steers. We had our first laser back in the late 80' when the price was over $5000 then now you can get one for under $1000 that does more.

The one thing about retirement is you remember the old days when things first came out.........................

[CountyMaterials]

Yeah, Siena Stone and Dura-Hold have some sweet spec numbers, I have to admit. Machine setting is something in and of itself I guess and I honestly have know knowledge on that. I have not seen that used around here, at least in my territory. Jeff, you know of any uses around here like what Paul is speaking of?

[Paul]

This a a allan block wall we install at a park in Bedford Park.

[johnkeegan]

Paul, You mention a "Base Marker" for installing the base course. What is that?

[Stonehenge]

Jason - to asnwer your question - Yep. And Sienna Stone does get used around here, though primarily for steps. But it does make a nice, big step.

[Paul]

Ok a picture of the base maker system

[johnkeegan]

Paul, Is the purpose of this system to merely mark the radius of the curve for the wall or does it also speed up leveling the base course?

[Paul]

I know that the picture is a bit small but if you see the man standing between the rails he has a grading blade that rides the rails. this blade is adjustable for pitch and height. so if I needed to add say 3 degrees to back pitch the wall it was easy to loosen up a couple of bolts and move it to where the plans called for it.