[HRLand]

Anyone run into problems with block heights? We're doing a project with country manor and most of the large blocks are about 1/8" taller than the rest and almost all the blocks have extra concrete around the receiving channel. When I got to the job site this afternoon my guys had about half of what they should have had done because they had to grind off the excess to make the block sit flat.

[Bill Schwab]

We have installed thousands of square feet of Country Manor this year alone. Never have we had the issues you are describing. If you have different hieghts, reject the block and tell the manufacturer he has a problem in his molds. The SRW sytem is sold to us because it provides a more affordable alternative to block and mortar. If you have a 1/8" variance, the system is rendered usless for it's intended purpose.

Is your manufacturer one who uses 3 piece or 5 peice Country Manor? Ours uses 3 piece. Much easier and I feel beter looking than a 5 piece system. How about the pin holes in the large block? Are yours all in a row, or did they move the center hole in an inch to align corners better? This threw us for a loop because no one ever told us that they made that change. Our rep had to call production to find out what was going on....

[HRLand]

We get the 5 piece set and the large block has an extra hole for the corners. I have used this block a few times this year and really liked the way it went together but this is driving me nuts. I'm supposed to have this wall done tomorrow and now I have to go deal with my supplier before we can do anymore work.

[PSUscaper]

Just got a pallet of coventry cap yesterday to finish off a set of steps and the quality was horrible......look like after the caps came out of the machine, they were splattered with sludge.....its great fun when trying to glue, as you have to spend a few extra seconds wiping off the dust so the glue will stick. Also, out of the 96 on the pallet, about 20 of them were nicked up to the point of being unusable, especially on a high profile area like stairs. Also, a good bit of them were very 'stoney', like the mix didn't get injected into the mold tightly. I guess I shouldn't expect much for the bargain price of $7.02 a piece!

Have had similiar problems with techo blok. I truly believe it is the factory speeding up production in order to produce. The best product for that is Grinnel (which I'm sure you've used if your in wayne) They pump those things out as fast and with as little care as possible........sure, 1/4 difference may not make a difference to the DIY they sell too at home depot, but it sure does to the poor contractor trying to build a 12' retaining wall.

And my favorite quote from grinnel.......'usage means acceptance!' kind of hard to tell the block is crap until you build with it.....then its too late. Talk about a scam.

But EP Henry and others like techo have no excuse......considering the price is twice that of grinnel, I find it inexcusable to even get 1 bad piece on a pallet.

BTW, do you buy from Canete(sp) up there in wayne..... I've heard there good guys to deal with, and I found out their price was much cheaper than my supplier.

[BJR]

Like Bill said.

If the blocks aren't uniform, throw the bad ones on a pallet, call the place of purchase demanding new blocks straight away and also at a discounted price to make up for the stuffing around in sorting out the blocks.

Or you should leave the blocks once you find the problem and demand a complete exchange. The only problem with this is that you have to go start another job.

I had a problem with some blocks we had to use around a new horse stud. The job had to be finished by a certain date and we found that approx 25% of the blocks were faulty. We stacked them on pallets for future pickup. Then we had to go and pick up the new blocks ourselves because the manufacturer couldn't guarante delivery on time. At the end of the job I worked out that I was out of pocket $1,100. So I sent an invoice for this amount with my payment for my monthly account. And deducted it from the money owing on the account. It worked! A rep contacted me straight away asking what was wrong and proceeded to apologise. They have also agreed to leave the faulty blocks on site in case the owner wants to use them elsewhere, and agreed to wipe the $1,100 off my account.

If you don't stand up for yourself, no one will. Don't let them bluff you.

I would say that I have sent back at least 40 palets of blocks in total in the past 6 years.

[HRLand]

Steve, I buy from Braen Supply. It's a quarry with a hardscape/mason supply division where you can get everything in one place. I know the owner of Canete garden center and he's a good guy but I can't see myself buying from a competitor. Even though his company is much larger than mine we do bid on some of the same jobs. If I keep getting lousy material I may have to find a different supplier.

[Jake]

As per ASTM C140 spec:
"SRW units' molded dimensions shall not differ more than +/- 1/8 inch from that specified, except height which shall be +/- 1/16 inch as measured inaccordance with ASTM C140."
Most good manufacturers understand what it takes to install SRW's. As landscape contractors we do not have the luxury of a 3/8 inch mud joint like a mason does so our tolerances are more critical.

[scott C]

I have had thius problem from certain manufacturers. I was told it had to do with the form they were using. After extended use the forms need to be replaced. Not sure if this is the same problem you are having or if you received a bad batch. Keep an eye on the next batch of block, if the problem persists seek a new vendor untiul the problem is fixed.

[Stonehenge]

Jake's right, and unfortunately there are some mfg's that stand behind the ASTM specs. I say unfortunately, because most block mfg's wouldn't dream of selling block at the outside edges of ASTM specs. But a few do. And it makes you look like a schmuck when your walls or pavers don't turn out because of the materials you're using. What I've heard from mfg's is that over time the forms get worn out and start producing block that are 1mm different, then 2mm, pretty soon it's a difference that affects their use.

I'd do what others suggest - reject the block. For the near term, one trick to make the block heights work out is to use pennies or washers as shims. I learned that trick from a member here, and it works great for small gaps.

[Jake]

HR - I think you are on the right track. Tell your supplier and see what action he takes. If not the action you want, find a better supplier. By the way by just getting different block you may still have the same problem. SRW's are made in large "runs" and a little problem sometimes can take a while to get out of the system.

If you ever get a chance to tour a block plant that makes SRW's do so. It will give you alittle insite as to what it takes to make a good product. Its alot of work but can be done well.

Good luck and do it right.

[Bill Schwab]

One of the upsides and downsides to Keystone is that instead of building more plants that they would own, they find reputable block manufacturers (RCP Block and Brick in our area) and contract with them to manufacture that block/wall material.

The up side, is that manufacturer can better compete in a hot market. the downside is that quality control can get twisted out of whack. My advice is if you get no results from your manufacturer, call Bob McDonald, senior engineer at Keystone in Minnesota and explain the problem. They are a very quality consious manufacturer, if for any other reason, liabilities. They get a wall that blows due to bad molding and they get dragged right into the middle of the lawsuite.

If that manufacturer does not want to take care of the problem, I'm sure Keystone will set them straight.

[HRLand]

I took some examples of the bad block to my supplier this morning and he gave me an extra pallet of block so we could get the job finished while he waits to hear from the manufacturer. About 1/4 of the extra pallet was bad but we were able to finish after measuring each one. Could this be the reason I see so many bad looking walls around here? I can't imagine continuing a job knowing your block is not all equal in size.

[Bill Schwab]

HR, I would also push to see if they can comp you for the lost time screwing around playing musical block with thier wall. They probably won't give money back, but I'm willing to bet you might get a pallet or two of wall material. What the heck, at $225.00 per 25 sf of Country Manor, it's worth a try!

[HRLand]

Bill, you get them at 25sf per pallet, at $9 per sf?! We get 42 sf to a pallet for almost $11. The price doesn't bother me so much but I can't move a full pallet with my loader.

I spoke with our local sales rep and he's coming to the job site tomorrow to see my problem. I'll see what I could get out of him then. I need to replace my deck and a couple of free pallets would be nice.

[scl]

I'm with Bill, get comped for your time, even if its in material. Even my best wall company has had mold problems. One I remember had a 1/8" difference from front to back.. Makes for a lot of lean on a 4" wall.

I had a height variation going on a large Quarrystone (Unilock) wall I was doing. The large and medium blocks were great, but the small block varied by as much as 3/16" higher, causing some whooping, and leading to grinding and extra time. Not much compensation or sympathy from them though.

I agree with rejecting block, but is a guy supposed to guage evey block on every pallet before installing them? Thats ridiculou, not to mention time prohibitive, and when they screw it up they should pay for it.