[chesie]

Ok this is not a segment we have ventured into much. We do a fair number of "natural style" ponds but new to the formal segment.

This would be half above ground and half below. 8' x 12' x 2' deep approx. 12- 18" above ground with mortared field stone sides and blustone coping.

My question is how do you deal with the liner in respect to the masonary? In other words where and how do i go about attaching the liner at the top of the pond? Under the coping- if so how do i still acheive a good bond of the coping? Attach to rear of stone wall?

Thanks for any advice

[BJR]

Is this what you are wanting to do?

[chesie]

Exactly- other than no stack stone inside the pond. Which is probably the problem. If we were to construct it how you have drawn then there would really be no problem. Hmmmm....

[Stonehenge]

I think you may be making this harder than need be, unless someone else can prove me wrong.

One of the things you do when putting an informal pond in is to make sure the liner has been pressed into all the corner, nooks and crannies to be sure that when you fill it with water, the weight of the water doesn't pull the liner in deeper.

The same principle should apply here. Excavate, build your mortared wall, then install the liner, tucking it into all the nooks and crannies. Lap the liner partially over the top of the wall, then mortar your bluestone caps on top. That will hold the liner in place. Fill with water, and enjoy.

We're going to be doing something similar with some Unilock Brussels Dimensional in the very near future.

[chesie]

LOL- I think you are right. I guess i had visions of the liner not having a place to tuck and looking messy.

[Bill Schwab]

The best way to do any formal pond is with gunite and rebar reenforcement. The hard corner lines of a formal pond are just not worth attempting with rubber. Then just set the coping on the top edge of the gunite.

Base cost for any gunite load is $3,500.00. For an 8x12, 2 feet deep you are looking at 25K with the pump and coping.

[BJR]

What's gunite?

[Bill Schwab]

Gunite is a form of concrete, it has a 7 bag mix, pea gravel not stone, most often squirted from a gun. Other terms for gunite are "Shot crete" because it is shot onto the floor and verticle walls, trowled off, then plastered to waterproof.

[Dale Wiley]

Have to agree with Bill here. Formal ponds are usually always concrete. Liners and stone and mortar generally don't go well together.

If your going to use stone, the rock stack would be the way to go, but not a dry stack. With gunnite, the base needs to be firmloy and corrected compacted.

[BJR]

We call it shot crete. Same as doing a swimming pool.

I calculate 2.6 cubic metres of concrete for the pond being 150mm (6in) thick. That is only $500 here. Sorry for the metric. Pump is $550. Steel $400. Excavate 3 cub m $200. Labour to construct $2000. Capping and water proofing $600. Total $4250 plus Profit Margin. Mind you this is Australian pricing.

Bill how did you get $25,000?

[Dale Wiley]

Bill how did you get $25,000?

Well mate... because he can.

You have to understand the So Cal life style and the cost of everything down there and the freaky nature of the residents. They pay immense amounts of money, more than things are worth, so they have them and can brag to their neighbors and co workers about their "formal pool".

( Insert look down nose, glass of wine, and trophy blond wife with fake rack here.)

My bro in laws step daughter / husband live there in a one bedroom apartment for $ 1500 a month. Fing ridicilous.

That project would get me about 14k, 2000 miles north of him.

Thats why Bill will do over a million this year only 2 years in biz out there...

[Bill Schwab]

Dale knows it well here...let us consider, $30.00 per
$100.00 of wage paid for workmans compensation. In Illinois, our comp was $7.49 per $100.00. Comp affects every single product you buy, service you render.
Then, let us factor in, the cost of legally operatiing. Since many properties only have 5 feet max from side retaining wall to house, access with an ASV or 463 Bobcat is all you get. In most cases, it is Army edition dump trucks and backhoes. (wheel barrows and shovels) Then lets factor in that we have to build a dam to spill concrete pour off, because God forbid if it hardened on the dirt, the rediue could hurt someone. Then, when it hardens, you peel out the plastic and straw and recycle the concrete. Then lets not forget that spilling dirt, mulch, or anything on city streets yeilds a $10,000 fine. So, if this leaves you a driveway. And if you are doing a job like we just completed with 5 semi trailer loads of country manor, and 2,000 sq ft of pavers, you start at one end, in sequance, completing every phase as you back out to the road, because when one phase is complete, no machines will have access. So, to help with the dirt problem, we bought roll off trucks, so, our dirt can sit on the street without touching the pavement. Well, as long as you have a $250.00 permit to park the container there.....And the list goes on. Before anyone starts here, I suggest a course from VanDerKooi and let the parts about overhead recovery sink in real good. The sad part along with the see what I got and what I paid syndrome, is that the averge Joe thinks things suchj as work comp and dirt on roads only affects business owners...If they saw the sheets I fill out to estimate my numbers, they would see exactly who pays for liberal McGovernick laws... I assure anyone it ain't gonna be our company!

[spiderlily]

VanDerKooi ?

[BJR]

We pay 8.5% workers comp, I would use our Bobcat 322 excavator (3ft wide) to dig the hole, place in our Ivant dumpers, drive up onto our tippers and dump. 3 cub metres woulden't even fill 1 truck. I would form and poor the concrete. Place sediment control messures etc. I am flabergasted at $25,000. I am one of the dearest contractors in my area. Everything is above board.

How much does a concrete pool cost. The construction is similar, just a lot smaller. Over here a 22ft x 12ft pool would cost $25 - 35k. And that's 6ft deep.