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Old 05-02-2004, 05:02 PM
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Landscape Fabric under pavers?

I have never done it before, nor does the manufacturer mention use of it. I have head people laying landscape fabric under their crushed base material when laying pavers. I guess it would help keep the aggrigate from settleing into the ground, but can't see any other reason for it.

Has or does anyone else use the fabric? Pros... Cons.

Thanks for any input.
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Old 05-02-2004, 05:34 PM
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We use a geo-textile under the aggregate base material when we are dealing with poor draining soils or poor load bearing soils. The geo-tex keeps the aggregate from migrating into the soil and the soil from migrating into the aggregate. This is very much needed in areas where freeze-thaw happens.

Go to ICPI.ORG to learn more.

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Old 05-02-2004, 07:06 PM
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Rexx:

Have you seen that honey comb grid that is available? They make it in 4 and 6" varieties so you pour the gravel into it, expand the honey combs and pack it together. Keeps gravel from walking in expansible soils. Also stabilizes soil somewhat...that way when we get into a wet winter, the driveways stay nice and flat when Home Depots which are set in 2" of base and sand take a walk.
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Old 05-02-2004, 07:15 PM
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Presto's Geo Web, it's a cellular confinement that can be used on slopes, grout filled or gravel filled, installed as a retaining wall by stacking the expanded web over forms, or as a gravel retaining bed for drives and retention ponds that double as parking lots.
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Old 05-02-2004, 07:17 PM
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Bill,

I have not seen that material. Are you saying if you use that material you can cut down on the base thickness? Sounds like a good product for clay soils.

Even here, we use 4-inches of compacted aggregate for driveways.

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Old 05-02-2004, 07:36 PM
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They manufacture that stuff in my backyard. Sonic-welded plastic-polymer material. Apparently it's been used by the Army for some time as an instant road - even in total sand, just fill the honeycombs with that same sand and it becomes stiff enough to drive on, because you've pretty much encapsulated the pockets of sand. We helped a homeowner build a pond using the stuff to build up the waterfall area.

The material runs vertically, not laterally, so there would still be stone migrating into the base below, so it may not really address paponte's question. But it's an interesting material, without a doubt. It's used a great deal at golf courses around here, where there are gravel cart paths on steep slopes. Just spread the geoweb out and fill with screenings and you're done.

To address paponte's question, we use a geotextile (not landscape fabric, though they are similar) in poor soil situations as Rex discusses. The main difference I see between a spun-bound landscape fabric and a spun-bound geotextile is the thickness of the material. I think the landsape fabric material is also a bit stiffer and prone to tearing.


This discussion has been included in the site beginner's brick paving page.

Last edited by Stonehenge; 02-24-2006 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 05-02-2004, 10:44 PM
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I use geotextile in wet clay soil to prevent the migrating of the base already mentioned. The gray woven fiberglass "Landscape Fabric" Home Depot sells seems to be identical to some geotextile I've bought from Unilock.
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Old 05-02-2004, 11:09 PM
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You might want to try a bi lateral geo grid, it's stronger than fabric.
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Old 05-03-2004, 04:59 PM
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Paponte -

There is a company called SRW Products that makes a product called SS5 Fabric (Seperation & Stabilization). According to the company "it is a soil stablilzation fabric made from woven polypropylene fibers. It is typically used as base reinforcement under all types of pavements including patios, sidewalks and driveways. It helps to stop cracks, ruts and pot holes, in poor soil areas, before they start." They say it can "improve the long-term performance of your project by 50-70% when properly installed and if your project is professionally designed, SS5 Fabric could reduce required base material by as much as 30%."

Now, we stock it, but haven't sold any. I don't know how well it works in the field. Personally, I like the bi-directional geo-grid laid under the base like Paul said.

But anyway, yes Paponte, there is such a product.
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Old 05-03-2004, 07:36 PM
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Maybe I will try using it on the job that I am on now. Because of the freeze and thaw we have in Winter/Spring, I always go 8"-10" on aggrigate to prevent any sagging or rutting when doing driveways. Based on what most are saying, I should be able to get away using almost half of that with geotextile. I don't think I would feel secure using any less than 6" on a drive though.
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:01 PM
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I still like 12" of base under my vehicular pavers.
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:56 PM
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Same here.
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:15 PM
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I do not subscribe to the geo-tex and geo-grids manufactures claims, that you can use less base material if you use their product.

No matter what we use under the aggregate, the required base thickness does not change.

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Old 05-04-2004, 12:26 PM
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Yeah, what the manufactures claim are almost always based upon their own testing. (we however, send our products to an independent lab for testing on our pavers and retaining walls.) When I wrote the thing about using less base material, that was what the manufacturer states. That being said, I would still recommend and use the same amount of base as you usually use and add the fabric/grid, whatever, in as a bonus. There isn't really such a thing as too much base.
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:26 PM
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Is grid really going to prevent the stone from mixing with the soils below? They'll still be in direct contact, and other than the big stones caught in the grid, the little stuff would likely still get through.
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