[grlandscaping]

Hey everyone, its been awhile since I've been on here, I know you've all missed me Anyways, I'm posting because I lost a rewall project, of good size, to someone who has way under bid me. It happens to everyone and to myself, but when its a good friends family who does it, it's frustrating.

Heres the project in a nutshell: Total square footage: 435 (on the conservative side). Approx. 170 linear feet of wall. Block of choice is Anchor Highland Stone w/jumpers. Front yard and driveway project, so easy access. No room for storage of spoils and/or gravel. A lot of excavation (approx. 5-7 truck loads). Existing limestone wall needs to be removed. It is you typical middle class home with the driveway cut into a hill and walls on each side (one side having 2 tiers) and a wall running along a sidewalk acrose the front of the home. The other wall on the driveway wants to be pushed back about 2' to fit trash cans in. Wall to be capped.

Thats a quick description, i can get more exact details if needed, but I'm really interested in seeing a few figures to see how i fell in among you guys. I found out what he was charging, approx. sq. footage price, and i figured out where I was at with square footage. Thanks for any and all help on this guys. I'm kinda frustrated right now because I've gone and changed the way I'm estimating because I'm tired of short changing myself and coming in lower than everyone else. I'm curious now if I'm coming in too high compared with everyone else.

Again, thanks guys and I'm looking forward to seeing how everything compares.

p.s. The big kicker is this guys price (per sq. footage) also includes landscaping, how extensive it is i don't know, but you'll be surpised by the price.

[Stonehenge]

What's the price per square foot of the block you've spec'd, and what are the dimensions of the block?

Before cranking out a price, you may find that at the point that you raise prices you start losing a lot more jobs. Part of that is because you are now not the lowest price (and must use a little salesmanship). The other is all the work you've done to this point, and all the referrals, are from people for whom you did inexpensive work. Friends of cheap people tend to also be cheap people; It'll take a little time to grow into a new set of clientele, who have different friends.

[Bill Schwab]

How tall are each of the walls from the toe to top? What kind of soil? Is this going to be an engineered design and if so, will there be any back tie system used?

Also, since you have no storage on site, have you factored in the possibility of removing too much dirt, then having to replace it? I.E. fudge factor?

[jwholden]

all the work you've done to this point, and all the referrals, are from people for whom you did inexpensive work. Friends of cheap people tend to also be cheap people; It'll take a little time to grow into a new set of clientele, who have different friends.

Listen to the man. He knows what he's saying!

Every year as my rates go up some clients stick around and some vanish. They don't see the difference between me and the other guy and that's ok. If asked I explain why my prices went up, such as a close examination of overhead over the last winter, and tell them I hope they stick with me.

If the guys price was that good I'm sure you won't have to worry about competeing with him next year. However, there will be someone else wearing the same hat.

[grlandscaping]

Thanks guys, you're right, cheap people refer cheap people.

Soil type: clay
Engineered: no
wall 1: 3.5' tall x 35' long, 0' at other end
wall 2, 3' tall x 13'long
wall3: 2' tall x 13' long
wall 4: 3' tall x 20' long
wall 5: 2' tall x 13'long
wall 6: 3' tall x 50' long

Those are the approx. sizes off the top of my head
There will be enough to stock pile a small pile to top off the walls, but storing all of the spoils there isn't enough room.

Price of block: $8.95 (my cost), and not including caps which are 17" long and about $4.75 a piece

[grlandscaping]

This system is a random one: theres a 6", 12", and 18" wide blocks, all 6" tall. There is one block, the jumper, that is 6" wide and 12" tall. Rear lip style block
36 18" blocks per pallet
54 (27 of each) 6" and 12" per pallet

$8.95 is the cost per sq. ft

[BJR]

i can't offer any prices, as mine would be Australian. The best place to live and work mind you.

I just quoted a wall at $19,900.

The client notified me he had a quote for $11,000, & why I was so expensive?

I asked if the other contractor had included all of the work to be done, in the quote, as I had. I always detail my quotes to include all of the work to be done. This way there can be no misunderstanding.

The client said that the quote just said to build retaining wall and a price. No dimensions, quantities, preparation, etc.

So I asked to client to go back and ask the other contractor why he was so inexpensive.

The client eventually called me back to ask if I could do the job, because after quissing the other contractor, and getting no answers, he didn't trust him at all.

I always say;

Believe in yourself, your ability to do good work, and the right to charge a quality price to do quality work.

It must be working for me because in the last 12 months my turnover is up by 80%, my bottom line is up 300%, and my average job is up from $8000 to $18,500. I have spent the last week, on and off, working out a price for the replacement of 2 large retaining walls that have collapsed. I am almost finished and it is at $235,000. There is 120 cubic metres of concrete in the footings alone. I was asked to quote this job because the Engineer in charge had heard I did good quality work.

Don't worry about what the other guy is doing. Just make sure what you do is quality and be proud of it.

[Stonehenge]

Some of the project would be hard to price without seeing the site, but a very rough number for me would be around $17K.

[Bill Schwab]

I have a cost of $25,500.00. With the block sizes as they are, this wall is structured similarly to Keystone Country Manor. I'm not sure if Highland Stone has pins or not, but, since the block size is the same as Keystone, I'm betting that over 2.5' from the toe will need geo grid, those are Keystone specs. That is why our cost is more.

[grlandscaping]

I'll have to post some pics of the project for you guys later.

On the project, I bid $11,500. The other guy came in 3,000 less then I did, which puts him around $18 per sq. ft. The thing that gets me the most is that this guy also included landscaping (shrubs, mulch, and a couple trees) in his price as well. If he wants to lose his tail like i'm sure he is, I'm glad i didn't get it.

Now the same guy wants me to come bid his backyard wall and paver patio because the contractor who's doing his walls in the front yard bid the backyard "too high'. This potential probably isn't worth my time, we'll see how it turns out.

thanks again guys!!

[jwholden]

GR,

I think it's interesting the job went to the cheaper guy for the walls in the front. Then, when the cheaper guy realizes he messed up the bid (giving the benefit of the doubt ) and uses better pricing in the back the homeowner calls you.

What do you think the motivating force of this lead is? Does he want you for your knowledge, professionalism, 'style', or price? If you can give him all that for a better price you'll get the job every time. However, the other factors mentioned usually add to the cost.

Not trying to be a downer here, perhaps estimates are making my patience shorter (please refer to all posts about screening potential clients).

[Stonehenge]

I hear you JW - I'm trying to thrash through them with a machete this spring, to get to the good ones. Had one almost in the bag - they took 6-7 months to decide, then had a change of heart in the design, and though I knew I was this close (picture my fingers close together) to getting the project, I told them I needed them to commit to me financially before I made another move. They baulked. Just as well, I'd prefer to do that now then to chase my tail for another 3 months for a $10K project.

GR - I would bet that the homeowner wants to check your competitors numbers against yours. Spare yourself some dignity, and some time, and decline the request for a proposal. If he begs you for it, tell him you need $1,000 down (non-refundable) before you put pencil to paper for the backyard. I think you'll find out in short order how the cards are stacked.

I mean c'mon. $8,000 for those walls and landscaping? Either the client is lying to you about the price he's paying, or the landscaper doesn't know how to price. Keep an eye on the local auction houses - you may get a chance to get his equipment on the cheap in a year or two.

[Bill Schwab]

GR:

That can be handled priofitably. Tell him that under the circumstances you will charge $250.00 for your written estimate and upon start of the work, you will credit the invoice toward completion.