[Stonehenge]

When you are building a patio that will include freestanding steps leading into patio doors, do you build the steps first, or last?

We've always installed them last, but I've seen others installing them first...even installing them one day, and coming back a week or so later to install the rest of the patio.

I'm trying to think of ways to make better use of the manpower resources I have, and am considering this as an option.

[Rex Mann]

We have always built at least the first step. Then the pavers run right up to the rock face of the riser. I did not know it could be done another way. Your steps aren't built ontop of the pavers are they?

After the first step is done then the patio or walkway can be started. They remaining steps can be completed by a qualified person when their time allows. They would be completed by the time the patio is completed.

Peace,

Rex

[dan deutekom]

I do it exactly like Rex.

[scl]

Me too!

[Stonehenge]

We have about 4-5 different step building methods, but yes, one of them includes pavers atop cap block atop pavers.

It's always worked well for us - gobbles up more materials, but it is a time saver compared to a couple of the other methods.

The thing I'm finding is that building the steps last becomes a bottleneck, and a barrier to getting the project done in the minimum # of man-hours.

[Will Pacala]

Same as rex too. I like it that way cause it's easier to lay out the patio. One time the steps were ordered from PA and had not arrived when we started the project. I cut out a plywood template and used that to work with because the steps weren't there yet. It worked very well considering the situation. But yes I would at least install the first step or do what I did before laying down the patio.

[Bill Schwab]

If we know the final elevations, we do the steps first.

If the owner has not decided other areas of hardscape, and we have a significant fudge factor on the job, then we do patio first, steps last. Most of the time, it is just a patio, no steps, as houses here have a stucco vent at the bottom. San Diego building code says we must leave 2" between the hardscape and that vent except under the threshold, where we can make it even.

Thus, there is only a 4" difference from top of threashold to top of patio, so, little to no need for step.

[site]

Steps first whenever possible.
It is easier to "fudge" the patio than the steps. Once the steps are set you can work the patio to their elevation. If you fudge step elevations it looks like poor workmanship. Also, steps are heavy, and more easily moved with a machine. I aviod driving on new patios with machines (even though the are built to withstand it)

[Stonehenge]

I was thinking more about steps made from SRW's and pavers. If it were large stone that couldn't be wheeled, we've done those first as well. (But that has been seldom.)

Are some of you guys using pre-fab steps? Or are you talking about large stone steps?

Anyway, if I were to change to this, it might make things flow a little better - go build steps on Saturdays with a couple guys, then knock out the bull work during the week.

One last Q - In building your steps first, does the rise on your first step match the rest?

[Bill Schwab]

Yes, all rises match....For thoseof you using UNILOCK who did not know this...If you have a client who wants one of those cutsie wootsie half circle stoops from the back of the house, if you use UNILOCK Gardenstone, it makes a 3.5 dia radius with no cutting...That all you do is set the bottom course, with angled sides one way, set the other course with angled side to the opposite. Then just fill with base, compact to grade and lay the infill of pavers....Works slick as snot!!!!

[Stonehenge]

I'm putting together the different step construction methods we use, to be included in project packs for the crews. Here are 4 of the dif't constructions we use for steps:

[Stonehenge]

.

[Stonehenge]

...

[Stonehenge]

last one...there are a couple others, but I don't have them sketched up. Mainly because I can't remember them....

My preference is Type 1 or Type 2, because they are the fastest. I don't like installing Type 3 - difficult to compact sufficiently to not have the pavers settle in a couple years, especially if the space is too narrow for compaction equipment.

[Will Pacala]

Looks good. What one do you find you use the most on jobs???