[bssford460]

how do i convince. (not con) my boss that we really do need a mini-x. i think it would cut my irr. installs almost in half in conjunction with the trencher we already have for the t-300.
he thinks a new mini-x is $60,000. and tells me if i want one then i can buy it.
what gripe me the most is he as bought a 2nd s-300, which we didnt really need, and he has ordered a 30 gooseneck trailer at about $8500 that i dont really thinke we needed either. he said some thing about hauling both bobcats but his new f-350 or our old f-450 is not rated to haul the trailer with both bobcats.
have any ideas.
i cant look online and get the price of a bran new mini ex cause the websites for the company wont list a price.
how much does a medium sized brand new bobcat 325 or a 329 cost?
i know its not no $60,000 stinking bucks

[Dale Wiley]

The day you sign the checks is the day you get to start specing equipment.

[VoodooChile]

It might be time to look for a new boss, or a better company that is more responsive to the needs of guys out in the field getting the work done.

Forget about conning him. From the tone of your comments, I'm guessing this employer/employee relationship isn't all it could be, and these kind of conflicts, where neither party is listening to or respecting the other, rarely get better.

Check out this site if its come time to walk: Jobs in Hort

Good Luck!

[bssford460]

Mr. Wiley, nobody here needs your negative remarks. I was asking an honest and legitimate question. and instead of giving advice. (which is what we are here for), you feel the need to make a smart remark.
I am 25 years old and have been doing this since i was 15. thats 10 years. My boss has been in the business for 12 years. i guess that 2 years experiance over me is really something eh.
we started doing small jobs with 4-5 employees. we have grown and grown and grown. and now we are doing large scale residential jobs. we went from 1 boss and 2 full time and 2 part time people. To 1 boss and 1 full time and 1 part time. we are having to try to do more work with less people.
I am the only full time person. My boss nephew helps on average about 1 day a week, and our only part time help can only work 2 days a week, due to his main part time work that will become fulltime in 6-8 months.
We've looked for help. but we are not going to hire people we have to babysit. My boss WILL NOT hire illegals to do his work. So all this being said if your not going to have man power then you have to have some other means. what is the only other mean. EQUIPMENT.

i have been averaging 4-5 job offers a year for the last 3-4 years and have turned them all down. to stay with this company. I am paid decent. and like the environtment. My boss and i have NO other problems whatsoever. except when it comes to this. for whatever reason he refused to think about, contemplate, consider, or look at any type of back hoe, back hoe attachemnt or excavator.
We do irrigation only becuase there is NOBODY else around here that is dependable enough for us to contract out. that is the only reason we do the irrigation. His wife (bookkeeper/secretary) complains becuase we barely break even on most irrigation jobs. She says we need to make more money on those jobs.
we use rainbird products becuase that is the only thing we can get locally and my boss said that is all he wants to buy, he does not want to travel to pick stuff up and pay for shipping and all that. so if your not gonna save any money on using cheaper products the only other thing to save money on is labor. the only way in our case to save money on labor is to speed things up. and a minix would do that considerably.
i'm not asking him to invest the money into it right now, i just want him to think about it, gather some information. talk to people. get some prices, and have a real idea of the whole situations before he just up and says no way jose. VoodooChile, thank you for your post and that link but our relatinship is great except when it comes to this. AS i said before Mr. Wiley, keep your negative comments to yourself, that is not what this place is supposed to be about.

[Dale Wiley]

Smart remark???..maybe, but true

Is your name on the lease payments for any of that equipment and vehicles ?

Is your name on the checks that pay you, the others, the taxes ?

Are you personally liable for any of the debts and taxes of the company?

Are you liable for any of the risk's of doing business ??

You are the full part time person ?? Your damn lucky you have the stuff you do with only 1 FULL time employee..the numbers on that just don't pencil out.

You can have equipment, but ya got to have some butts in the seats to run it..

The book keeper says you only break even ?? Seems like adding an excavator before you add more body's so you can BILL MORE HOURS is a bad idea to me too.

Improving the financial performance of the company at present is more important that adding another payment or expense, particuarly if you don't have the employees to bill more hours.

Years of experience don't mean a thing.. if you have had the job offers you say, you should have looked long and hard at them....if you are the opnly full time employee, the bookeeper says your only breaking even.. these are some red flags that may be clueing you in to the future with this company.

I will just let you comments to me go on over, and chalk it up to youthfull exhuberence and a desire to get ahead.

In fact, by your screen name, I think you might be into Fords and hot engines...so that gives us a common ground...

[HRLand]

All that aside, why would you want a mini-x for irrgation installs? Around here most companies use a pipe puller, I rarely see trenchers.

[Matt Kulp]

bssford460,
If you really think the mini ex is a must have, ask your boss to rent one for a job and do a time comparison to the equipment you have currently.

You are coming from a standpoint of an employee that does not pay the bills. Your boss is looking at the payment and wondering how much more work your company will have to do to make those payments for the years to come. You are right in that a mini ex will not cost you $60,000, depending on the size. I have a 325 and we picked it up used for $12,000, maybe that would be an avenue to consider.

I do have one question for you. How do you see a mini ex saving you that much more time then just using trenchers for irrigation installation? I am not attacking your idea, I would just like to hear your pitch!

[bssford460]

ok bear with me and i'll try to get to all the replies.
first is Dale.
i know all about the taxes and debt and payments and all that stuff, that being said. All the "equipment" that i mentioned above, (and then some) is PAID FOR. thats right, we are a debt free company. the only thing that isnt paid for is the trailer that we have not taken delivery of yet.
As for butts in the seat. he and I are the only one that he will let run any of the equipment, (really using it, anybody can move somethng).
i'm not sure what you meant about billing more hours.
you must do things differnt
same job + less time = same money for us, but we are moving on to the next job to do the same thing over again.
i did not mean for my comments to come across as being mean. but you admit to being a smart mouthed.

HRLand, we dont use poly pipe here, for whever reason i dont know, the products of the equpment just isnt used here, we have to have trenches to put PVC pipe into.

Matt Kulp Here is why i honestly think the minix will help.
when we go onto our bigger jobs the contractor has us take care of basically all the outside stuff. we dig the ditches for the electrical service (for out building, garages, boathouses). we take care of all the drainage work, (big pipes that dont fit in a trencher trench.
we have to dig footings for wing walls. and some of our own stone retaining walls. we plant large trees, we do ponds and waterfalls which have to be dug. It just seems like we do stuff the hard and time consuming way.

Like i said i'm not asking him to go to the dealership on monday and get one. i just want him to look at the possibility that we might have a use for one.
example
we just did a small back yard that is about 100 feet long and about 40 feet wide. the excavotor had backfilled with 3 in. limestone gravel and put in about 8 in. of topsoil.
our trencher would not go into the rock. only into the topsoil. now after having to install irrigation lines. misc electrical lines. drain lines and city water lines for hose outside faucets & water at thier pier. we had shallow trenches cris crossed all acrroos the yard, you cant do anthing with out dirt falling back into any of the trenches.
nothing is as deep as it should be.
most of you know that a 4 in. pipe does not fit into a 4 in. trench. we spend, DAYS cleaning out already trenched ditches just to get our stuff in there.
now correct me if i'm wrong (and i may be ) but with a miniX you could dig a nice foot wide or foot and a half wide trench, that gives you plenty of depth to work with. and enough width to intall multiple items or larger drain pipes in one fell swoop.
another thing if you have to trench from one wall straight to another one you cant trench the last 10-15 feet that is being taken up by the skid steer. so you eithe have to dig that by hand or turn the skidsteer around. (running over your nice new trench and filing it back full of dirt.) you have to then start at the other wall and try to make your trenches meet. under all the dirt that is being thrown out. and then on top of that you still have to get down there and clean all the crap out with a little ol. 4 inch trech shovel.

If it were just the job we are on now i'd just suck it up and get over it. i know life isnt fair and we dont get what we want hardly ever. but this job seems to be the rule rather than the exception to it.

have i always wanted one becuase they are cool. yes i will admit that. but i have never mentioned it or hinted at it before becuase we didnt need one.
i now feel that it is a legit to ask for at least some thought or consideration.
10 years ago he said we would never need a bobcat. now we have 2. and he tells EVERYBODY that if he knew how nice they were and how much they helped that he would have had a bobcat a long time ago. this is no differnt. i just want some suggestions on how to get him to see the light now instead of in 10 years. and him be saying the same thing. "boy i wish we'd bought a mini x years go."

see what i'm saying, i know its shitload of someobody elses money to be slinging around like it came from a monopoly box.
its hard to convey what i'm really getting at through a message board, maybe i shouldnt have bothered.

[johnkeegan]

Like Matt said, have him try a rental or if he complains about that, most dealers will let you demo one for free. My dealer will even drop it off, give you a quick lesson and pick it up when you are done. If the Bobcat dealer won't do it, have the Cat dealer (or other competitor) stop by. When he sees those white machines he'll be dying to get a yellow one on the jobsite.

[Dale Wiley]

Debt free company.

Company breaking even.

Only 2 people can run the equipment.

I can see you bosses rationale for his decision.

Now in your last post, I think you make a convincing argument for a rental trial. The way you put it there versus your first post is a lot different. Based upon what you have said, a mini ex sounds like a good idea.

No company is ever debt free. You have to have equipment reserves bid in each job in order to have the money to repalce the "paid for" equipment. The company is always owed money by itself for depletion of its physical assets.

[HRLand]

If you're doing all those jobs then I agree, he should own a mini-x. I bought a used one five years ago and it made my life a lot easier. Paid 5k for it and just sold it today for 5k. Bought a new JD 35D with cab/heat/ac and a hydraulic thumb for $44,900. You can get something in the 4k lb. range for what you're doing at around 30k without the luxeries.

[bssford460]

Hey Dale, when i say debt free i mean he doesn't make a monthly payment on stuff. I know about fuel and depreciation and that type of stuff. The breaking even is only on the irrigation part of each job. She keeps everthing itemized. (she's good) Everywhere else we're making money.

I should have worded my original post a little better. I should have been more thorough in describing my reasons for believing we needed to look into this.

This being said, i'm not in a tizzy because I think we need one and am not getting my way. I just wanted some suggestions on how to approach a "set in his ways" boss in checking into a "new fangled" way of doing things......
and Dale are you a Mark Martin fan by any chance?

[johnkeegan]

I hope your boss realizes how lucky he is to have an employee that is looking out for the company's bottom line. Having an employee that thinks while he/she works is not as common as we would hope. Especially an employee that thinks about it on their spare time. I see a future businessman in the making...

[Dale Wiley]

Of course I am Mark Martin fan..any time one of the old men driving a Ford can hand it to a young guy driving a Chev is a good guy....

and I agree with what John says....most people in your situation would just say the hell with it and mark time and take the extra money from the decreased production rates.

[mrusk]

Maybe talk your boss into subbing out all excavation?

I am trying the sub route this year since i hate renting and do not want to buy a min x until i can pay for it in full.

Now i am doing mostly alarger jobs, so this method might not work on small ones.

Here is how its going to work on a big design i working on. Excavator is going to make a 500 yard cut in the back yard and excavate for retaining walls, excavate for pool, excavate for pillar footings, excate for electrical trenches and thats about it.

Then send the electrican in to run all the conduit and the excavator backfills, plumber runs gas lines etc.

When my crew finally rolls in we start pouring footings, installing base material, etc. By not doing excavating, we get our next jobs moving before we finish our last. And its better then 1 guy digging with the skid steer and 2 guys leaning on shovels.

However, what works for me in my market, might not work in yours.