[johnkeegan]

I recently went to a NY state Department of Transportation seminar. Depressing, of course. From what he said and from what I got from the website, I believe I'll now need to have a Class A license for every driver because the law reads that anytime you have a combined weight of truck and trailer over 26k, you need a Class A CDL. And the kicker is that the weight limit is based on the higher of the manufacturer's specs or the actual weight. So, I take it, that having a truck spec'd at 17.5K and a Bobcat trailer spec'd at 10K, WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE CARRYING THAT MUCH WEIGHT, would require the driver to have a Class A.
As if it wasn't hard enough already to just find employees that showed up on Monday and had a (fairly) clean license.

[Paydaze7]

the dot is on a rampage down here for the same thing. they tied 6 of my guys up in 2 trucks/trailers untill myself and someone else got down there with pickup trucks with lighter gvws, to take the trailers. we have a few f450's and combined with everyone of our trailers they are overweight and need a class A. so they basically force you to drive unsafe with a large trailer and a smaller pickup. i've since sold a lot of our higher g.v.w trailers and gotten the same trailer but with just a smaller g.v.w. it sucks dont it.

[Stonehenge]

As I understand it the CDL requirements are national (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so what is going on in Wisconsin should apply.

The last time we got dragged to a scale (and passed, btw ) we had a few minor things we had to repair before they'd let us street the truck and trailer again, so I also had to run out Emergency-51 style to do the repairs. Taillights and wires was all, but during that time I was asking the trooper about trailer requirements. This is what I was told by her, and another at another weigh station, and the state's manual corroborates this (and I posted that part of the manual somewhere here):

If your trailer's GVW is less than 10,000 pounds, it doesn't count toward your GCVW. It's like a freebie. Now, if you're overloading a 10,000# trailer and something happens like an accident, you're probably going to be toast for overloading the trailer.

When the trailer is at or over 10,000 GVW, it counts toward that 26,000 magic number. So if your trailer has a GVW of 15,000, to stay under the CDL requirements, the vehicle towing it can only have a GVW of 10,999 or less (and be rated for a 15,000 pound trailer).

Possible scenarios:

Guy is pulling a 20,000 pound trailer(GVW) with a 5,000 pouind truck (GVW). No CDL required. (I know someone's going to freak out at this one - please go check your states regs before posting to disagree with this one.)

Guy is driving a 20,000 (GVW) pound truck with a 7,000 (GVW) pound trailer. CDL not required (the trailer is less than 10,000 GVW, so it doesn't count).

Guy is driving a 16,000# GVW truck, pulling a 10,000# GVW trailer. CDL required.

I think Chevy's 3500 HD trucks were tweaked over the last few years, sensitive to this issue. Most skid steer trailers have a GVW of 10,000 or more (though we have one with a GVW of 9,900), and their trucks (at my last check) have a GVW of 15,500.

So as long as you don't have the biggest skidsteer on the market, you can get truck, trailer and skidsteer to a jobsite, legally under the 26,000# GCVW CDL limit.

[Dale Wiley]

It is the COMBINED GVW that matters. This is why a lot of trucks are now rated at 25,500 GVW by the manufactuers.

The major car manufactuers did this back in the 70's, rating the Cameros and Mustangs at under 300hp for insuranc ratings, but if you dynaoed them they still spun 325 BHP or better.

I know this for a fact, and that is that most commercial vehiucls and turf equipement are routinely rated at least 20% and up to 30% under the actual safe GVW capability of the unit.

This is so the mensas at the golf courses etc, who will always overload a piece of equipment, can over load it and still manage to operate it in a some what safe manner.

Our F 350 Super Duty 4x4 is 12, 000 GVW and the deck over trailer is 14,000 for a combined total of 26,000. That means the driver needs a CDL even if he never gets the weight up close there. So be it. He makes $ 16.00 per hour right now .

We have went to heavier vehicle and trailers so we can get our pay loads up there. It involves moving to a new and different level of employee, and type of operation, but one that will make you mor emoney any way.

[Paydaze7]

ive also found everyone says something different when it comes to this situation - dmv, local cops, dot, state police, etc. its hard to get a clear answer out of anyone.. i made the dot staties photo copy everything out of their books and some of them didn't even know the laws....

[johnkeegan]

It involves moving to a new and different level of employee

...

He makes $ 16.00 per hour right now .

I wish it were that simple.

My top guys passed that wage level years ago. (And,yes, there's health ins., matching retirement, a couple weeks of paid vac./ sick etc., as well). I have repeat summer help that makes almost that much. And that would be a starting wage for a qualified stone person. But how many stone masons have CDL's? It just means that every new quy will have to get a class A CDL now if he tows a Bobcat (with the Isuzu, of course, using a lighter duty pickup is fine). Same with the planting crew if they need a Bobcat. I prefer to run very small crews (1-2 guys) that show up with all the materials and equipment in one trip. Makes for ultimate efficency.

I can just see alot of time and money spent on CDL training and then have these guys disappear or decide to go solo one week later. Probably another reason to, instead, hire H2B labor instead of locals because at least they are sort of "mandated" to work only for you or else leave the country.

[Dale Wiley]

The idea of a journey man mason landscaper is nice, but is it real and practical ?? and on a more than 1 or 2 man basis??

I think we would all benifit form that type of employee.

We use the foreperson / operations forman and myself to transport materials now. We both have CDL's and are around the jobs any way.

[site]

CDL Requirements start at 26,001 lbs-not 26,000. That one pound makes a diference when you tally up the GVW's on trucks and trailers.

[Orchard Ex]

This comes up on Heavy Equipment Forums quite often. Each state can have different requirements, the national CDL requirements are meant as a minimum. My state says that any commercial vehicle with a trailer over 10,001 lbs needs a class A CDL. Other states only require a class A after you get the combined weight over 26,001. Sometimes the magic number is over 26,000, sometimes it's over 25,999. Weights that I can run legally here would have me "out of service" in South Dakota etc.
Check what your state is requiring before you get out on the road.
The idea of photocopying the requirement is a good one too but I'd approach correcting the officer humbly so that you don't get the "microscopic detailed" inspection.

[mdscaper]

I researched this to death when I sold my 10k Bri-Mar and bought a 14k Foster trailer in 2004. After many different answers from everyone in the business, as well as the oh so helpful MVA, I finally found the exact passage I needed for Maryland in the MD Motor carrier handbook. I carry it in my truck as well as a statement sent to me from the MVA (yes I went that far) in case I ever get checked. Bottom line, stay under 26,001 combined, you don't need a CDL. My truck is 10k, trailer 14k , no problem.
Just like Wisconsin(maybe nation wide?), it is totally nonsensical when it comes to a 10k trailer. Your trailer only counts if it is over 10k. So you can actually drive a truck with with a GVW of 26k and pull a trailer of 10k and not need a CDL. But, if you have a truck with a GVW of 12.5k, you would need a CDL for my 14k trailer even though the combined weight is 9,500 lbs less. I guess there's logic in there somewhere.

[mrusk]

Yes it is combined way. SO many people try to argue and tell me i need a class A to tow my 12k trailer with my 9k gvw truck.

As i buy a bigger truck i will be in class A territory. It aggrevates me but i have to do it. And i will make all my employees get it too. I do not want to be stuck in the truck all day since i am the only one that can drive it with a trailer.

[scl]

In the USSR of Illinois you need a CDL if your combined is greater than 26k, or your trailer is over 10k gvwr. and they do write tickets!

[Stonehenge]

SCL, here's a pdf from Illinois: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...dsd_cdl103.pdf

Look at page 3, 2/3 of the way down. They don't give explicit examples, but I think the rules are the same in Illinois as they are in WI. But it's possible that the police there (as in many other places) did not receive a proper education about these particular rules.

[John Palasek]

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The thing that drives me crazy here in NY is the trailer weight. Here. (and I suppose elsewhere), if I tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs. GVW, I need a Class A CDL.

Right now, (and for the last 15 years), I have a Class B CDL with Air Brakes, Tank and HazMat endorsements. So I can drive any straight truck up to 80,000 lbs. GVW. Yet, if I pull a trailer with my pickup truck, (which is how I do things), and that trailer tops out at 10,001 lbs., I can be cited for driving out of class.

Is that ridiculous, or what?

Meanwhile, the trailer itself is barely adequate to haul my 873 Bobcat along with my Clamshell bucket, which I use almost exclusively except for grading. In fact, truth be told, I believe that when I'm loaded, I'm actually overweight by about 100 lbs. or so.

I think that they should change the trailer weight restriction to 12,000 lbs. instead of the 10,000 lbs. it is now just for safety's sake so that I could then go out and buy a real, honest-to-goodness 12,000 lb trailer which could better handle my 873/bucket setup.

But no, if I want to have that breathing room, I have to go out and get a Class A CDL and so does anyone else who might drive my truck. I do all the driving as it is because I'm a small setup and I'm still on all my jobs. But I'm not getting any younger and I would like to look towards delegating tasks to others in the future.

The trouble with THAT is that it's hard enough to find employees who can do what I need them to do right now and I can only imagine how difficult it will be to find them with a Class A CDL as well. If they'd raise the trailer weight to 12,000 lbs, then a either regular license or a "paper" CDL is all that's needed to do things right.

But that'll never happen because there's too much money to be made in fines for overweight or class violations.


-JP





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[PSUscaper]

You know.....

I have to be honest on this one.

I took the class a test 2 years ago and have to say it really is NOT a hard thing to get. The hardest part about the test was getting a truck and trailer to take the test in. (well that and producing the '5 points' of identifcation needed to get a new license, now that IS A PAIN IN THE #%^!)

At this point, we all know the regs and enforcement are a mess, and the chances of it changing for the the better are slim to none. If anything, they are going to get worse.

I know its another pain in the but thing to do, but really, it isn't that hard. If a employee can't pass the test, then I have to ask if they should be driving ANY truck and trailer.

You have to back a trailer into a spot, stop on a line, and drive for five minutes on the road. Is this asking a whole lot? I know the tests vary state by state and some are quite difficult, but it's not rocket science in any way shape or form.

I mean, if you run a pesticide company, employees have to pass a pesticide test. Most don't complain, and that test may be a little bit harder.

I'm 100% against the state telling me I have to do anything. Believe me, when my state passed this stupid 'home contractor' state registration act, I was not happy.

To be honest, as I think about some of the really stupid loads I've carried and then, even worse, see the stupid things people are hauling with thier pickups, I do wonder if it really isn't a good thing. Also, we are all hoping for more regulations and legislation that would require basic requirments for people to be landscapers.....say, like INSURANCE. Well, if we can't get that, then perhaps making everyone with a truck and trailer get a CDL may be a good thing. It would hurt legitimate companies a little, but at the same time, if would make it harder for non-legitimate companies to operate. Is that a bad thing???