[dan deutekom]

You guys are turning me off of tracked machines. Work in the mud? Work in freezing weather in December? How will I ever get some time off?

[Dale Wiley]

BJR:

Sorry to hear of all your trouble with that machine mate....if the dealer and all those others made the comments they have, I think you have a case with the manufactuer before suing them.

I was with a Toro distributor for 9 years as a field rep and service person. If a machine failed that bad, and all that was said and done or not done, the dealer had better come correct on it otherwise, the people would just start climbing the corporate ladder and rasing hell until someone did them right, stood all the repairs, or in some cases took the machine back and refunded some money on the deal.

There are BIG differences in machines made for different countries... machines that go to the EU, all have different requirements. I am not familar with Australia, but it's probably NOT the same machine being sold in the US or the EU.

Becoming a major pain in the ass to a dealer and / or manufactuer can go a long ways to solving your problem.

[Bill Schwab]

Soil type dictates track life. We have crap for soil, abrasive as all get out. Rocks, gravel, demo bad for tracks. Rich loamy midwest soil, you might just get 3000 hours out of your tracks.

The other issues are usage. If you side slope, you should work with both sides of the machine, otherwise the cleats inside will wear on one side. You can rotate your tracks and save the llife as well, just like tires.

Rollers, if you see delamination, that is warranteeable. If the sides are scored and scraped, you should replace the roller because the side is what keeps the track aligned. Cracking in the grousers, normal. Splitting chunking, cut oif the loose rubber and run it. Tears all the way across the primary cords, toss it out.

The Cat CD disk shows every type of wear, and what is bad and what needs to be junked, as they teach in the class.. Adjustment as mentioned is critical. Too loose and the cleats will spin off the rubber. Too tight and you wear the centers out. There was even an asphalt guy who ran his 277 every day on the streets he paved. He had over 1800 hours and just getting due to replace. The info at the seminar, I was going in and going to take with a grain of salt, but, to have 30 or so owners and mujnicipalities in as well, confirming what was being tyaught was pretty assuring. One other thing you need to check is the rollers on the drive wheels. They should all spin freely or you will wear out the drive wheels. The same as the ring that holds it all together. It should be replaced if it gets under 3/16" thick.

I bascially forced them to tell me the costs of replacement and when I could expect to replace them. All in all, i thought the class was pretty well done, not too muc Cat one way, and Bobcat the other. They had a bobcat machine there and showed it's advantage, the only one really being that the track will not derail. But, with the rigid frame, you get beat up driving it, and the vulcanized steel is a destruction unit after 1000 hours bacause of the heat built up from the steel gear to steel drive in the track.

And you are right..We can take a pallet of Keystone standard units up a 2-1 slope without any trouble at all.

[BJR]

Dale,

I've been a pain in the ass for the dealer and the importer for 3 years now. The first sprocket drive desintegrated at 80 hours. They replaced both with so called new heavier duty ones. They didn't break but the key on the drive shaft did and that means replacing the drive motor and the sprocket drive.

I just received a letter in the mail today from the solicitors that I have been talking to about this problem They want to know what I am going to do. I think it must be a sign from the gods for me to take legal action.

So I am going to call them right now and start the ball rolling.

I don't know how Bill got only $1 extra to maintain a track loader over a skid steer. I have worked out that in Aus it costs approx an extra $6/hr for a ASV RC30. This is worked out on what they say is normal maintenance on this machine. IE 2000 hours to replace tracks, wheels, bearings and sprocked rollers, Downtime, Labour and Materials.

They don't seem to include the labour and downtime into the equation. I have had over 144 hours of downtime in 850 hours of use.

[PSUscaper]

Another 'little' tid bit of info they fail to include with the machines.......moving it!

Check the width of the machine with your exis trailer......and then check the weight of the machine with your exis gvrw......it may be a little surprising...........

We've talked about this in other posts.....but you are in cdl with most of the larger rubber tracked machines.

Also, if you are in the snow removal market, choice sites wisely. The tracks may seem like they would perform well in snow, but I have found them to perform worst than a tire machine in many situations.......and I mean bad enough where the machine has to be parked the entire night because it is not safe to drive (slid down 100 ft of hill at a condo complex) Low ground pressure is great in the mud..........but = bad in the snow

[Bill Schwab]

The acid test.

My 257 came in early, 9 weeks early! Just in time for a side sloping job. Today I started at 7:00 AM, tools on site, tooth bucket and 6 way angle blade. We had to excavate 230 yards off the toe of the slope and distribute it on an exisiting 3-1 slope. I moved 190 yards in an 8 hour day, keep in mind each bucket was driven up the slope, then spread. The 6 way blade cuts perfect landings when you angle it to the 22° it allows you. Power wise, good, but, I wish it had about 30 more ponies. Fuel, this thing is a pig. Sucked nearly a tank, but, in all fairness, Hawthorne brought it to me andI don't know if it was full all the way, or the guage said so, and some fuel had been burned off.

I checked track tension, greased the bogies, bucket hinges, and, locked it down for the night and we are all ready to start at 6 tomorrow. I'm working 6AM til dusk, I want this job billed out over the weekend. Excavtion charges, lets just say $6,900.00 for 20 hours of machine time ain't too shabby!

It drives right into the back of a 20 yard box, now all I have to is weld some D rings in each box and we are set!

This machine rocks! Going to get GPS grade read trained next week, but still have not decided weather to go GPS or lazer... Thus far old reliable still being used. Transit and grade rod.....

[PSUscaper]

Congrats on the new machine.

I know what you mean with power......My 864 only has 72, the t300 has 80 something........that change makes a huge difference. I've heard the mustang/gehl/takuchi is a monster with 100+ hp.......some say too much power for its own good.

[BJR]

Just to go back a few posts. Cleaning out tracks is recommended. I know I do it, but why?

You turn up on a job with nice clean tracks and under carraige and the first thing you do is drive it into a pile of slop or loose dirt and they are full again.

[Oversized2]

Just wondering what type of grade control you went with and how you like it. Sounding like I want to set up a machine in much the same way.

[Bill Schwab]

We are renting a slope lazer right now. GPS was my first choice, until you add this that and the other thing, and by the time you are done, you got 20K in a grading tool that, as Paul mentioned previously, does not work around tall buildings, and, in our situation, won't work in many of the canyons we operate in.

I am using a grade poleon each end of the blade, and at this juncture, we adjust the blade hieght by hand. I am a firm believer in mastering one aspect of a new toy before you over technify, simply because it is too much too fast to learn, and, I don't have too much faith in technolgy at this time. When it fails, it holds you hostage, and, production hours/down time to me is everything right now. I don't have too aweful much to report about grading tools on this machine at this time, but we have 3 1 acre lots coming up where we need to push pads, cut and fill for driveways, and set 2-1 slopes around the perimeters of each site, as well as cut wall pads, trench utilities and so fourth. After the dust settles from all that I will have alot more to report, and, I'm sure many questions along the way.

[mown2long]

I think that people try to do with the track machine what should be done with a 955. I just purchased a 267b and love it so far, steering it is what i think will be a key contributor to premature track wear. it handles and rides so smooth ill never run a rubbertired machine again. I alwas try to watch the materials i work around-try to go around the pile of gravel instead of through it-stuff like that. I think common sense is waht will help make these tracks last.

[Bill Schwab]

I always said that if I had the need for a 277B, that I would just go ahead and get a 939 Width wise, they are about the same, and, alot heavier. Usage is everything. And, as you know, there is proper, and improper usage. Rubber tracks have definite advantages over steel, just as steel has advantages over rubber.

It kind of reminds me of when I used to plow snow. The worst drivers I got were laid off operating engineers, because they thought our 4x4 pick up trucks were the equivelant of a D-9R. Thats why Cat MTL school is so beneficial.

[Dale Wiley]

The tracked machines such as Toro TX 425, Ditch Witch etc seem to me to be very inefficent and break down prone machines.

We rented a TX 425 for 6 weeks last fall and winter. It did OK, but my crew did not like it because of the walking in rough terrian.

We rented another one last week to plant 108 trees with. The gdamn tracks fell off it about 6 hours into the job. Bad engineering because Cat, Bobcat and Ditch Witch have all the good track engineering tied up in patents and everything else is a poor imitation

6.5 hours lost production time. 1.5 hours shop time, total 8 hours lost time first day.

2 hours to take machine back to rental company and get another one. Machine gets to job and digs 5 holes and damn track motor blows seal and starts leaking hot gear oil on 3 driveways and 2 lawns before crew catches it. Crew is shut down on tree planting for the rest of the day and we have to re shuffle the work load. 4.5 hours lost production time there. 6 hours for clean up of driuveways and cut out damaged sod. 2 hours lost time taking machine back and telling them not to bother with another one.

So, were are looking at 22.5 hours of lost production time at $ 35 per hour for a grand total of $ 787.50, and puts the job down 22.5 hours. Now I am pissed, and I try to never get pissed because it just screws up my whole week.

I paid $ 215 deposit on the machine and I want it all back, the rental company is balking at that. Screw them.

Now... I drive to Portland and pickup our new S 600 Vermeer compact skid steer. Awesome machine. I take it to job and crew starts planting trees again and the machine works fine, everything goes good, and I am getting the job back on track.

Rental equipment sucks. My payment on this unit is $ 837 per month. It will have paid for the first payment by the end of today....

[BJR]

A Vermeer skid steer is one that i haven't seen in Aus.

[PSUscaper]

I've never seen one either, but wouldn't be surprised. Every machinery company out there seems to be coming out with a skidsteer or some sort.

I just can't wait for the future when all of the companies making all this equipment go under or discontinue them and leave thousands of contractors with machines that can't be fixed and have a resale value of pennies on the dollar they were purchased for. Ebay is going to be a graveyard of machinery that no one wants.